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04-13-2013, 04:50 AM   #376
Ash
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There are infinite ways to train students - each method has its merits, and students respond to each method differently. Learning from first principles is never a bad idea, and it would be great for all courses to standardise their teaching in this way, but it isn't the only way.

04-13-2013, 04:53 AM   #377
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QuoteOriginally posted by dboeren Quote
It's the student who decides to think or not think, not his camera.
QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
My son started a Media and Communications course at university this year, and one of his elective subjects is photography. The course requires them to use a 35mm manual film SLR for all their shots! I had my old Olympus OM-1 reconditioned and gave him some lessons before the course started (which gave him a good head start). The students are given exercises on aperture and exposure, selecting depth of field, composition, etc. This is impressive, and my son is really appreciating and enjoying it. I am sure this is still the best way to learn photography from scratch; the dSLR will come later. So perhaps the 'good old days' are not completely gone yet.
Our local High School, which offers Photography under the Art curriculum cross-listed under Journalism, has refurbished the venerable K1000's and M50's, re-opened the darkrooms and resumed teaching fundamental B&W photography as a prerequisite for the more advanced courses. In 2004 the District had purchased 20 Mac's, Adobe software and Canon digital cameras and lenses (including long sports lenses) and ceased wet photography. It was thought the savings on film, chemicals and paper along with a Federal Education Grant for the computers and software would pay for the digital gear. Their Yearbook and Newspaper printers offered a generous discount for digital submissions.

The advanced curriculum branches into graded, juried, artistic photography including statewide juried competition - and also Photo-Journalism for Newspaper and Yearbook. The Journalism end-product (the Daily Call (Newspaper) and the Pioneer (Yearbook) include resident summer workshops at Ball State University and annual National Student Press Assn. competitive submissions.

FWIW this is just a middle class suburb which has the philosophy that most extra-curricular subjects can progress to a quasi-vocational conclusion and that is the focus of the advanced coursework - even art and music have a vocational aspect. Music graduates regularly gain full-time employment in New York and Hollywood commercial orchestras and occasionally touring bands. You see from time to time a few of our Theater grads on Broadway, television and in movies.

Basic wet photography was restored once it was discovered that the early students using a digital only curriculum (after 2004) have not been as successful professionally as earlier graduates..

Last edited by monochrome; 04-14-2013 at 02:20 PM.
04-13-2013, 09:36 AM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
here are infinite ways to train students - each method has its merits, and students respond to each method differently.
Exactly - each student is different. A teacher is really just a guide, students just have to take your lead and just hope you have the right map.
04-14-2013, 01:49 PM - 2 Likes   #379
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I just want to chime in here on the whole subject of the value of a manual film camera for learning. As an older guy who started on the K1000 with a big ole Vivitar zoom in 1977 I resonate with that idea, and still love to shoot B&W film, process the negatives in my black-bag and then scan the negatives.

But that's not what I wanted to say.

What I wanted to say was that this has been a very insightful, thoughtful discussion. Different points of view, but a very enjoyable, mature, civil interaction on the merits and otherwise of starting in 1977 to learn the basics and moving forward. We all have our heritage and convictions, and to hear the different points of view discussed in such an insightful way has helped me a lot.

Just a word of thanks to everyone for so effortlessly keeping the discussion of this matter so grounded and helpful. My own views have been broadened.

04-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Basic wet photography was restored once it was discovered that the early students using a digital only curriculum (after 2004) have not been as successful professionally as earlier graduates..
That's very interesting. That's not what I would have expected - I would have thought training in modern tech would help you work best with modern tech. But on the other hand, I can also see how learning the old tech could deepen a students craft understanding when they move onto the latest tech.
04-14-2013, 03:27 PM   #381
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
That's very interesting. That's not what I would have expected - I would have thought training in modern tech would help you work best with modern tech. But on the other hand, I can also see how learning the old tech could deepen a students craft understanding when they move onto the latest tech.
I've only spoken to several of the students that I know from a youth group I chaperone, so I don't know the whole story. There's something to do with how the students are taught about light, and that metering/exposing the film, developing, enlarging and printing supposedly helps them tounderstand how the digital images will "develop" and print. Wet photography is Introductory (and hobby). They get the modern training after they've completed the prerequisite. Apparently less care had been taken with the photography because so much could be fixed in post.

Of course there hasn't been time yet to measure whether this will improve their success - that will take another decade. But both my daughters (both were Editor-in-Chief of Yearbook and the older rose through photography, was also Photography Editor, received an Honors Media Fellowship for college and is a Network News Producer) got professional benefit from the program.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-14-2013 at 03:35 PM.
04-14-2013, 04:02 PM - 1 Like   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
helps them tounderstand how the digital images will "develop" and print.
I can very much understand that.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Apparently less care had been taken with the photography because so much could be fixed in post.
Pic related:

04-17-2013, 08:01 AM   #383
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Pentax rumored to announce several new DSLRs and a new compact APS-C camera | Photo Rumors

So now that the Pentax Ricoh GR have been released pretty much as surmised does this give any validity to the remainder of the rumor. As many as 5 dslr's priced from 400 to 2000?

04-17-2013, 08:11 AM   #384
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
Pentax rumored to announce several new DSLRs and a new compact APS-C camera | Photo Rumors

So now that the Pentax Ricoh GR have been released pretty much as surmised does this give any validity to the remainder of the rumor. As many as 5 dslr's priced from 400 to 2000?
I don't think so because the GR rumour seems to have had a separate origin to the multi-DSLR one.
04-17-2013, 08:13 AM   #385
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No, it doesn't give any validity to the remainder of the rumor. That's actually a combination of several rumors, one of which was confirmed, another seems too good to be true (which means it is), and the last a series of fakes which are circling around the 'net.
04-17-2013, 08:28 AM   #386
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I don't think so because the GR rumour seems to have had a separate origin to the multi-DSLR one.
My thought as well, but hopeful someone with insight might pipe up. Or maybe they did.
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