[Clavius]

Yeh, go APS-C for portability and 645D for extreme resolution. Leave out the FF altogether.

You've put a smiley there, but that idea you have there, is not so bad at all.

What if all the recent advances in sensor technology didn't only contribute to the affordability of FF sensors, but also for MF sensors?

A 645DmkII would then - of course - still be more expensive then for a example a D800, but approaching a pricepoint where more people are likely to think: "Why would I go FF, if I can go MF for just $x,- extra?"

And if it then could use DFA's, DA's and FA's with an appropriate adapter and their appropriate crop modes, then nobody would need an FF Pentax. And Pentax would again be a step ahead of of the competition.

[gazonk]

You've put a smiley there, but that idea you have there, is not so bad at all.

What if all the recent advances in sensor technology didn't only contribute to the affordability of FF sensors, but also for MF sensors?

Yes, Sony makes the Exmor sensors in several sizes, why not larger than 24x36? 33x44 or even 36x48...

And if it then could use DFA's, DA's and FA's with an appropriate adapter and their appropriate crop modes, then nobody would need an FF Pentax. And Pentax would again be a step ahead of of the competition.

That sounds very unlikely, since the register distance of the 645D is so much larger. Of course a mirrorless 645 camera with adapters for both 645-system and K-system lenses could in principle be done. Or some weird SLR camera which could use shorter-register lenses in LV mode by moving the sensor into the mirror box

But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.

If it has

- significantly lower price (could be achieved by having two models, one of them with a lower-resolution 33x44 sensor, the other with a higher-resolution and possibly lager sensor)
- video
- more DSLR-like form factor (it would help a lot to make the body thinner, and there's a lot of air in the back of the 645D body)

it would start to look more like "the larger FF" and appeal to a broader group of photographers.

[Clavius]

That sounds very unlikely, since the register distance of the 645D is so much larger. Of course a mirrorless 645 camera with adapters for both 645-system and K-system lenses could in principle be done. Or some weird SLR camera which could use shorter-register lenses in LV mode by moving the sensor into the mirror box.

The latter solution that you mentioned here would also enable AF on MF lenses by movinig the sensor back and forth. But I think it would only make the 645DII even bigger then it's predecessor.

But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.

True, personally I wouldn't care either.

If it has

- significantly lower price (could be achieved by having two models, one of them with a lower-resolution 33x44 sensor, the other with a higher-resolution and possibly lager sensor)
- video
- more DSLR-like form factor (it would help a lot to make the body thinner, and there's a lot of air in the back of the 645D body)

it would start to look more like "the larger FF" and appeal to a broader group of photographers.

What would be the benefit of video on MF? The thinner body could again be reached by making it mirrorless. (And mirrorboxless.)

[gazonk]

What would be the benefit of video on MF?

Compete with FF. And stunning 4K video?

The thinner body could again be reached by making it mirrorless. (And mirrorboxless.)

there's no need to go mirrorless before EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete, especially when there's a lot of possibilities to save space behind the sensor:

[Clavius]

there's no need to go mirrorless before EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete, especially when there's a lot of possibilities to save space behind the sensor:

That IS a lot of nothing.

[Digitalis]

EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete

The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat. Also the shallower DOF from a 645 cameras would make the AF so slow it really wouldn't be funny because contrast detection doesn't work the way phase detect AF systems do.I have used the 645D for sports, and with pre-focusing it is more than up to the task, I wouldn't want to use an EVF camera for that with their shutter lag - especially with a sensor that big.

[gazonk]

The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat. Also the shallower DOF from a 645 cameras would make the AF so slow it really wouldn't be funny because contrast detection doesn't work the way phase detect AF systems do.I have used the 645D for sports, adn with prefocusing it is more than up to the task, I wouldn't want to use an EVF camera for that with their shutter lag - especially with a sensor that big.

I think an EVF that rivals a 645 OVF ergonomically is quite a bit into the future anyway, and by then I'm sure the heat problem will have been solved.

[jackassp]

Now you are all getting side-tracked.
Currently there are 20mp and 24mp sensors available in APS-C and FF sizes. Sure Canon has some APS-H sensors, but I can't see them selling to Pentax.

Pentax are paddling upstream using bad paddles, so it looks like Sony, or Toshiba.
I hope that Pentax doesn't choose the Nikon D3200 Sensor, but does choose the D5200 / D7100 sensor, for their new APS-C camera, and I would buy it in the blink of an eye, and I hope you will too.

I also hope that Pentax AF continues to improve. 39 AF points would be really nice.

And I want it all in the K-5 body.

[Medium FormatPro]

in the hands of a professional, is not any camera a professional camera

I'm going to put my Hasselblad on eBay and purchase iPads for the entire neighborhood. Then teaching them to use nothing but iPads to become pro's

[Digitalis]

I think an EVF that rivals a 645 OVF ergonomically is quite a bit into the future anyway, and by then I'm sure the heat problem will have been solved.

Without a passive or active cooling mechanism, I don't think EVF's will appear in medium format cameras ever. As things are some MFDBs actually use fans for active cooling - especially for long exposures. Those MFDB are designed for studio use or astronomy - forget about using them in a dust storm or rain like you already can with the 645D.

[Kunzite]

Agreed, but what could make sense would be to introduce both an APS-C and an "APS-H" crop mode for the coming FF camera(s), since several DA lenses seem to be "almost FF".

Well, that's software - right? So even a custom crop makes sense.

But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.

K-mount compatibility is very important, but for a medium format camera? If a new MF mount will be made, it won't be for the K-mount compatibility, IMO.

[boriscleto]

The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat.

What's the problem with that? You just make a cooling accessory

[gazonk]

Without a passive or active cooling mechanism, I don't think EVF's will appear in medium format cameras ever. As things are some MFDBs actually use fans for active cooling - especially for long exposures. Those MFDB are designed for studio use or astronomy - forget about using them in a dust storm or rain like you already can with the 645D.

But now you're talking about current CCD sensors and forget that a 33x44 sensor has only 68% more area than a 24x36 sensor, so it's just a question of time before they have no more heat problems than current 24x36 sensors. The same applies to a 36x48 sensor, but with 100% more area it will of course be a question of a little longer time.

(This reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend in high school about 34 years ago: I claimed that around the year 2000, we would have pocketable computers which would be used for note taking, music playing and a whole lot of other tasks (the only thing I got 100% wrong was the AI I envisioned compared to which Siri is an insulting joke ). He was absolutely sure I was wrong because it would never be possible to make cpu's that were cool enough and energy-efficient enough to fit in a pocketable computer )

[lukulele]

I'm going to put my Hasselblad on eBay and purchase iPads for the entire neighborhood. Then teaching them to use nothing but iPads to become pro's

Unfortunately that's the way that many school districts are dealing with technology(and baby sitting) today Medium FormatPro. A $10 million grant for iPads became a political hot potato in our district when every teacher who went through the grant process was promised a class set. The local public went ballistic and the grants were cut in half and the usual suspects were the only ones receiving iPads. The technology is changing so fast that Smart and Promethean Boards are already out of date and educrats are constantly asking for more technology, only to be out of date when the products are finally bid and delivered.

[gazonk]

Well, that's software - right? So even a custom crop makes sense.

Right. And the easiest (and most flexible for those who like to have all options available in PP) solution is simply to just crop JPEGs and let crop be just a processing default for DNG files.

But DX mode on Nikon FF cameras produce reduced size RAW files, right? I have no idea how that's implemented in the camera - if it's easy to just extract a random crop size or if it's hardware supported in order to be fast enough?