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05-22-2013, 07:34 PM   #106
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Great

You guy's that complain of the bouquet... What? This lens looks great! Sigma is doing some good things these days.

05-22-2013, 07:58 PM   #107
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Those pictures are all closed focus. I don't use this lens for this purpose. What is the point? Macro lens?
05-22-2013, 08:17 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by djrocks66 Quote
You guy's that complain of the bouquet... What? This lens looks great! Sigma is doing some good things these days.
It's "bokeh" (or ボケ "boke" in Japanese). Don't judge bokeh by extreme closeups such that the background is completely obliterated, and you can't tell what you're looking at anymore. Any lens can do this, and this tells you nothing about the true character of the bokeh.

The problem that a lot of people have with it on this lens is how it renders high contrast lines in the background as a jumbled mess, and highlights as hard-edged circles, when focused at medium distances. Take a look at the top left corner (area around the statue of the guy on a horse) and in the fountain of this sample at 100% in DPReview's review to see what I mean:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm/samples/bokeh/IMG_0095.jpg

Most people would not consider bokeh like this to be pleasant, though it doesn't look quite so terrible when viewing the image as a whole (i.e. not at 100%) IMO.

What makes this lens interesting to me is the extreme sharpness combined with subtle (not extreme) shallow depth of field at medium distances which really makes the subject pop out of the background, something a lot of people refer to as the "3D effect" (though it's more effective on FF with the wide angle).

Last edited by Cannikin; 05-22-2013 at 08:24 PM.
05-22-2013, 08:24 PM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
It's "bokeh" (or ボケ "boke" in Japanese). Don't judge bokeh by extreme closeups such that the background is completely obliterated, and you can't tell what you're looking at anymore. Any lens can do this, and this tells you nothing about the true character of the bokeh.

The problem that a lot of people have with it on this lens is how it renders high contrast lines in the background as a jumbled mess, and highlights as hard-edged circles, when focused at medium distances. Take a look at the top left corner (area around the statue of the guy on a horse) and in the fountain of this sample at 100% in DPReview's review to see what I mean:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm/samples/bokeh/IMG_0095.jpg

Most people would not consider bokeh like this to be pleasant, though it doesn't look quite so terrible when viewing the image as a whole (i.e. not at 100%) IMO.

What makes this lens interesting to me is the extreme sharpness combined with subtle (not extreme) shallow depth of field at medium distances which really makes the subject pop out of the background, something a lot of people refer to as the "3D effect" (though it's more effective on FF with the wide angle).
I still don't agree. Looks good to me. Crop sensor camera. Get a full frame if you want better.

05-22-2013, 08:27 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by djrocks66 Quote
I still don't agree. Looks good to me. Crop sensor camera. Get a full frame if you want better.
Um, what? This makes no sense. Crop vs FF has nothing to do with bokeh. The lens will render bokeh the same on any camera (except in the case where vignetting renders highlights as non-circles on the edges, which is not the problem here).
05-22-2013, 08:44 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Um, what? This makes no sense. Crop vs FF has nothing to do with bokeh. The lens will render bokeh the same on any camera (except in the case where vignetting renders highlights as non-circles on the edges, which is not the problem here).

Full frame vs crop does matter with bokeh. If you use a 50mm f1.2 on a Canon 5D and a 7D the bokeh will definitely render differently.
05-22-2013, 08:45 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by djrocks66 Quote
Full frame vs crop does matter with bokeh. If you use a 50mm f1.2 on a Canon 5D and a 7D the bokeh will definitely render differently.
I believe it will be the same, unless distance is change for similar framing; i.e. moving closer with a FF to get the same framing as on crop.
05-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by djrocks66 Quote
Full frame vs crop does matter with bokeh. If you use a 50mm f1.2 on a Canon 5D and a 7D the bokeh will definitely render differently.
Take a shot with a 5D, go into Photoshop and chop off the edges. You're saying doing this will magically make the bokeh rendering change?

05-22-2013, 08:54 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Take a shot with a 5D, go into Photoshop and chop off the edges. You're saying doing this will magically make the bokeh rendering change?
Silly to dispute this. I shoot both crop and full frame. Don't know what to say but there is a difference.
05-22-2013, 09:07 PM - 1 Like   #115
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Here are some shots with the Sigma that are not "macro"










05-22-2013, 09:15 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Here are some shots with the Sigma that are not "macro"










Nice!
05-22-2013, 11:44 PM   #117
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isnt DOF even smaller on a FF sensor compared to APS-C ?!
so cropping a FF image is not the same as shooting APS-C
05-23-2013, 12:16 AM   #118
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Depth of field is not a factor of sensor size, but of focal length, shooting distance and lens aperture. The same lens on an APS-C and a FF camera will give the same depth of field for any given aperture/shooting distance. However, to render the same field of view, one needs to shoot further away with the smaller sensor for any given subject, and this acts to increase the depth of field. The fact that any resulting print has to be magnified more with an APS-C sized sensor to give the same print dimensions acts to decrease the DoF a little, but that is a different matter.
05-23-2013, 12:33 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Here are some shots with the Sigma that are not "macro"










I don't want to sound like a broken record (I know I mentioned this in the other thread) but #1 has serious issues with the OOF rendering in the background. I don't know how much Post Processing you did on that shot but the circles on all the forms in back are quite disturbing. This is the main reason I returned my copy months ago and decided to keep my Nikkor 35/1.4G.

Last edited by bossa; 05-23-2013 at 04:10 AM.
05-23-2013, 04:29 AM   #120
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DOF

QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Depth of field is not a factor of sensor size, but of focal length, shooting distance and lens aperture. The same lens on an APS-C and a FF camera will give the same depth of field for any given aperture/shooting distance. However, to render the same field of view, one needs to shoot further away with the smaller sensor for any given subject, and this acts to increase the depth of field. The fact that any resulting print has to be magnified more with an APS-C sized sensor to give the same print dimensions acts to decrease the DoF a little, but that is a different matter.
You are part right but if you wanted to get the same shallow DOF as a Full frame with a 50mm 1.2 lens you would have to use a 31mm f 0.8 lens on a 1.6 crop factor camera. Good luck with that.
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