Pentax K-3 and 3s scheduled to appear in April

northcoastgreg · 03-14-2013, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by audiobomber

The sensor in the K-3 rumour is the same one used in the A77 and NEX7. DR and noise will be pretty much the same as the 16mp bodies

If the DR and the noise will be "pretty much the same" as the K-5, why would the K-3 be any more compelling an upgrade than the K-5ii? PopPhoto test the NEX 7, and found it yielded 2740 lines per picture height; the K-5 scored 2590 lines per picture height. That's a 5.7% difference. It's unlikely that at large print sizes anyone could tell the difference between images shot with the K-5 and a 24 MP K-3. But processing times might well be noticed, to the detriment of the K-3. 50% bigger file sizes for 5% increase in resolution is a downgrade, not an upgrade.

Now if Pentax vastly improved the tracking AF, that would certainly qualify as a compelling upgrade, but in that case, the K-3 would be more of a professional sports camera, and those cameras have lower MP counts, not higher (think Nikon D4 and Canon 1dx).

Perhaps Sony's new 20 MP would make more sense. That sensor is rumored to have improved dynamic range and perhaps as much as a one stop improvement in high ISO performance. If we're going to have to put up with larger file sizes, at least we ought get something more tangible and useful than a mere 5% increase in real resolution.

Wired · 03-14-2013, 10:06 AM

the D600 process files very quickly. I think if Pentax were to upgrade the processing engine to at least that of the D600's caliber, if not better we shouldn' thave a problem.

miles · 03-14-2013, 10:29 AM

So much speculation.... Sure i might get the K3. Depending on the lens / aperture / flash used, there should be considerably more resolution at 24 as opposed to 16 mpx. Also, i think there is room for a model ABOVE the K5(iis), with pro AF, dual cards... Though i'm not complaining any more, firmware 1.14 was awesome on the K5 (regarding AF).

That said, I think the peaty smokey whiskey conversation is much more interesting!
Cheers (with a glass Ardbeg)!

Wired · 03-14-2013, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I was trying to ignore all these posts that are making me so thirsty, but I'm failing at that. Laphroaig is my favorite brand. I used to work for Allied Distillers in Holland; I blame them for teaching me how to drink the stuff. It goes so well together with a nice dark Brazillian cigar..

I gave up smoking this past winter... but people keep buying me cigars. Something had to give because the wallet was getting empty way to fast... cigars were the one to go because they are not a good return on the money... but I usually like the Cubans myself. I've had some Brazillians, but I don't recall what they were...they were smooth though. I usually enjoy the Romeo Julietas

audiobomber · 03-14-2013, 12:10 PM

I enjoy a good cigar. I smoke about four a year, usually Cuban. Never with single malt though. Malts are too good to corrupt with cigar flavour. If I have whiskey with a cigar, it will be bourbon.

mikeSF · 03-14-2013, 12:11 PM

i remember this same thread last April...1st.

**monochrome** · 03-14-2013, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by mikeSF

i remember this same thread last April...1st.

Beware tomorrow

normhead · 03-14-2013, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Replacing the k-30? Or taking place below the k-30 as the cheapest/lowest Pentax DSLR product?

Take take "best APS-C", it's gonna need better AF than the D7100, and probably better than the upcoming Canon 7D2.

I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this.

**jatrax** · 03-14-2013, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by normhead

when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this.

Different photographers, different needs but I'm with Norm, AF on the k-5 is more than good enough for me. Really don't understand how it could be improved for what I shoot.

I guess if you are tracking birds in flight or airplanes or something but I've never used AF.C just don't shoot that kind of stuff.

JinDesu · 03-14-2013, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this.

If they want to lay claim to "best", then they have to have good AF, unless they are so much more better at everything else.It's not a question about whether you or I find the AF sufficient. It's whether the product is better than others to claim the title "best".

The k-5 claimed king of affordable APS-C for great form factor, best low-light performance, best DR, proven weather-sealing, fast frame-rate, silent shutter, etc. It was only lacking in AF in comparison to the 7D and the D7000 - but it was so good at everything else, it took the crown. The new generation of APS-Cs are coming out (or in the D7100's case, has come out). If the k-3 doesn't exceed these gens in the performance factors above, a substandard AF system will mean it cannot take the title "best".

derekkite · 03-14-2013, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF.
o, you and I are just going to have to differ on this.

My DA*300 won't focus in low light or low contrast on my K5. An improvement in low light and tracking accuracy in afc mode would be worth the upgrade for me. As well as faster recovery from multiple shots.

normhead · 03-14-2013, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

If they want to lay claim to "best", then they have to have good AF, unless they are so much more better at everything else.It's not a question about whether you or I find the AF sufficient. It's whether the product is better than others to claim the title "best".

But that's exactly the case, in DxO tests the K-5 is marked down for it's AF speed, but get a higher mark based on IQ, DR and noise reduction.

normhead · 03-14-2013, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by northcoastgreg

If the DR and the noise will be "pretty much the same" as the K-5, why would the K-3 be any more compelling an upgrade than the K-5ii? PopPhoto test the NEX 7, and found it yielded 2740 lines per picture height; the K-5 scored 2590 lines per picture height. That's a 5.7% difference. It's unlikely that at large print sizes anyone could tell the difference between images shot with the K-5 and a 24 MP K-3. But processing times might well be noticed, to the detriment of the K-3. 50% bigger file sizes for 5% increase in resolution is a downgrade, not an upgrade.

Now if Pentax vastly improved the tracking AF, that would certainly qualify as a compelling upgrade, but in that case, the K-3 would be more of a professional sports camera, and those cameras have lower MP counts, not higher (think Nikon D4 and Canon 1dx).

Perhaps Sony's new 20 MP would make more sense. That sensor is rumored to have improved dynamic range and perhaps as much as a one stop improvement in high ISO performance. If we're going to have to put up with larger file sizes, at least we ought get something more tangible and useful than a mere 5% increase in real resolution.

POP photo also only lists the D800 at ISO 50, it served up 3510 lines per picture height. The simple fact is, finer detail increases the price exponentially.

Quote:

The D600’s imaging proved well above economy class, with an Excellent rating in overall image quality in our tests from ISO 50 through ISO 3200. Its resolution was particularly impressive: 2930 lines per picture height at its lowest sensitivity of ISO 50.

Combine the 2740 for a NEX 7 and combine it with 8% for going AA filterless and you've got 2959, better than a D600.

Mistral75 · 03-14-2013, 01:49 PM

Count me among the Bruichladdich fanboys, 3D Moine Mhor ("Big Peat) being my favorite and Port Charlotte An Turas Mor a close second.

I understand from this topic that the latter won't be produced anymore: so sad... Is it because of Rémy Cointreau taking over the distillery?

JinDesu · 03-14-2013, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by normhead

But that's exactly the case, in DxO tests the K-5 is marked down for it's AF speed, but get a higher mark based on IQ, DR and noise reduction.

That's the case for the k-5. Not the k-3. Not yet - and it's a much stronger field now, with the D7100 and the potential 7D2.

03-14-2013, 01:17 PM	#118
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by northcoastgreg If the DR and the noise will be "pretty much the same" as the K-5, why would the K-3 be any more compelling an upgrade than the K-5ii? PopPhoto test the NEX 7, and found it yielded 2740 lines per picture height; the K-5 scored 2590 lines per picture height. That's a 5.7% difference. It's unlikely that at large print sizes anyone could tell the difference between images shot with the K-5 and a 24 MP K-3. But processing times might well be noticed, to the detriment of the K-3. 50% bigger file sizes for 5% increase in resolution is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Now if Pentax vastly improved the tracking AF, that would certainly qualify as a compelling upgrade, but in that case, the K-3 would be more of a professional sports camera, and those cameras have lower MP counts, not higher (think Nikon D4 and Canon 1dx). Perhaps Sony's new 20 MP would make more sense. That sensor is rumored to have improved dynamic range and perhaps as much as a one stop improvement in high ISO performance. If we're going to have to put up with larger file sizes, at least we ought get something more tangible and useful than a mere 5% increase in real resolution. POP photo also only lists the D800 at ISO 50, it served up 3510 lines per picture height. The simple fact is, finer detail increases the price exponentially. Quote: The D600’s imaging proved well above economy class, with an Excellent rating in overall image quality in our tests from ISO 50 through ISO 3200. Its resolution was particularly impressive: 2930 lines per picture height at its lowest sensitivity of ISO 50. Combine the 2740 for a NEX 7 and combine it with 8% for going AA filterless and you've got 2959, better than a D600. Last edited by normhead; 03-14-2013 at 01:23 PM.

03-14-2013, 01:49 PM	#119
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Count me among the Bruichladdich fanboys, 3D Moine Mhor ("Big Peat) being my favorite and Port Charlotte An Turas Mor a close second. I understand from this topic that the latter won't be produced anymore: so sad... Is it because of Rémy Cointreau taking over the distillery? Last edited by Mistral75; 03-14-2013 at 01:54 PM.

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03-14-2013, 09:33 AM	#106
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,174	Originally posted by audiobomber The sensor in the K-3 rumour is the same one used in the A77 and NEX7. DR and noise will be pretty much the same as the 16mp bodies If the DR and the noise will be "pretty much the same" as the K-5, why would the K-3 be any more compelling an upgrade than the K-5ii? PopPhoto test the NEX 7, and found it yielded 2740 lines per picture height; the K-5 scored 2590 lines per picture height. That's a 5.7% difference. It's unlikely that at large print sizes anyone could tell the difference between images shot with the K-5 and a 24 MP K-3. But processing times might well be noticed, to the detriment of the K-3. 50% bigger file sizes for 5% increase in resolution is a downgrade, not an upgrade. Now if Pentax vastly improved the tracking AF, that would certainly qualify as a compelling upgrade, but in that case, the K-3 would be more of a professional sports camera, and those cameras have lower MP counts, not higher (think Nikon D4 and Canon 1dx). Perhaps Sony's new 20 MP would make more sense. That sensor is rumored to have improved dynamic range and perhaps as much as a one stop improvement in high ISO performance. If we're going to have to put up with larger file sizes, at least we ought get something more tangible and useful than a mere 5% increase in real resolution.

03-14-2013, 10:06 AM	#107
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	the D600 process files very quickly. I think if Pentax were to upgrade the processing engine to at least that of the D600's caliber, if not better we shouldn' thave a problem.

03-14-2013, 10:29 AM	#108
miles Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Corfu, Greece Photos: Albums Posts: 104	So much speculation.... Sure i might get the K3. Depending on the lens / aperture / flash used, there should be considerably more resolution at 24 as opposed to 16 mpx. Also, i think there is room for a model ABOVE the K5(iis), with pro AF, dual cards... Though i'm not complaining any more, firmware 1.14 was awesome on the K5 (regarding AF). That said, I think the peaty smokey whiskey conversation is much more interesting! Cheers (with a glass Ardbeg)!

03-14-2013, 11:56 AM	#109
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by Clavius I was trying to ignore all these posts that are making me so thirsty, but I'm failing at that. Laphroaig is my favorite brand. I used to work for Allied Distillers in Holland; I blame them for teaching me how to drink the stuff. It goes so well together with a nice dark Brazillian cigar.. I gave up smoking this past winter... but people keep buying me cigars. Something had to give because the wallet was getting empty way to fast... cigars were the one to go because they are not a good return on the money... but I usually like the Cubans myself. I've had some Brazillians, but I don't recall what they were...they were smooth though. I usually enjoy the Romeo Julietas

03-14-2013, 12:10 PM	#110
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	I enjoy a good cigar. I smoke about four a year, usually Cuban. Never with single malt though. Malts are too good to corrupt with cigar flavour. If I have whiskey with a cigar, it will be bourbon.

03-14-2013, 12:11 PM	#111
mikeSF Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: East Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,622	i remember this same thread last April...1st.

03-14-2013, 12:16 PM	#112
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by mikeSF i remember this same thread last April...1st. Beware tomorrow

03-14-2013, 12:26 PM	#113
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by JinDesu Replacing the k-30? Or taking place below the k-30 as the cheapest/lowest Pentax DSLR product? Take take "best APS-C", it's gonna need better AF than the D7100, and probably better than the upcoming Canon 7D2. I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this.

03-14-2013, 12:42 PM	#114
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by normhead when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this. Different photographers, different needs but I'm with Norm, AF on the k-5 is more than good enough for me. Really don't understand how it could be improved for what I shoot. I guess if you are tracking birds in flight or airplanes or something but I've never used AF.C just don't shoot that kind of stuff.

03-14-2013, 12:48 PM	#115
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by normhead I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. So, you and I are just going to have to differ on this. If they want to lay claim to "best", then they have to have good AF, unless they are so much more better at everything else.It's not a question about whether you or I find the AF sufficient. It's whether the product is better than others to claim the title "best". The k-5 claimed king of affordable APS-C for great form factor, best low-light performance, best DR, proven weather-sealing, fast frame-rate, silent shutter, etc. It was only lacking in AF in comparison to the 7D and the D7000 - but it was so good at everything else, it took the crown. The new generation of APS-Cs are coming out (or in the D7100's case, has come out). If the k-3 doesn't exceed these gens in the performance factors above, a substandard AF system will mean it cannot take the title "best".

03-14-2013, 12:51 PM	#116
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by normhead I always go back to which one is capable of taking the best images. How much trouble I have to go through to get it is not an issue. It continues to blow me away that people talk about AF as critical to a camera, , when many of the best images, are taken with no AF. o, you and I are just going to have to differ on this. My DA*300 won't focus in low light or low contrast on my K5. An improvement in low light and tracking accuracy in afc mode would be worth the upgrade for me. As well as faster recovery from multiple shots.

03-14-2013, 01:13 PM	#117
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by JinDesu If they want to lay claim to "best", then they have to have good AF, unless they are so much more better at everything else.It's not a question about whether you or I find the AF sufficient. It's whether the product is better than others to claim the title "best". But that's exactly the case, in DxO tests the K-5 is marked down for it's AF speed, but get a higher mark based on IQ, DR and noise reduction.

03-14-2013, 01:57 PM	#120
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by normhead But that's exactly the case, in DxO tests the K-5 is marked down for it's AF speed, but get a higher mark based on IQ, DR and noise reduction. That's the case for the k-5. Not the k-3. Not yet - and it's a much stronger field now, with the D7100 and the potential 7D2.