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04-09-2013, 10:23 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What exactly am I speculating about? Mr. Malcolm himself publicly said he wants to talk with ex-Pentaxians, and other brands' shooters.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, and it's a valid kind of argument. The intention was to prove that there are contexts in which it's not about market share.
I'm sure Pentax USA has no need to ask Pentaxians about market share figures, by the way.
What would be the reasoning behind talking to consumers other than to figure out how to bring more into the brand (ie increasing marketshare)?
Do you think he just wanted to shoot the breeze and kill time?

04-09-2013, 10:26 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
If you want full frame now, you should just leave Pentax behind.
+1...
There are no guarantees that whatever Pentax will come out with (in who knows how long) will be better than current Nikon/Canon offerings.
04-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
If you want full frame now, you should just leave Pentax behind.
.
I says about different things...
04-09-2013, 11:16 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
...Jim will also ask ex-Pentaxians, as well as other system users, so he should get those answers. .
How will he go about doing this? ^^

I think I want to call BS on that. I suspect he included that as a sort of last-minute rhetorical CYA afterthought when he realized how 'we're asking our current customers' sounded - an incomplete marketing strategy.

I could be wrong. Perhaps we'll see Jim on the Canon and Nikon fora, starting threads, asking for Pentaxian-expats

.

04-09-2013, 11:25 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
What would be the reasoning behind talking to consumers other than to figure out how to bring more into the brand (ie increasing marketshare)?
Do you think he just wanted to shoot the breeze and kill time?
Sigh... why should we go to such lengths as thinking about the reasoning behind talking to consumers? "...Pentaxians are saying, “Just keep doing what you’re doing." was not about market share; it's as simple as that, unless you really enjoy splitting hairs.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
How will he go about doing this? ^^

I think he included that as a sort of last-minute rhetorical afterthought when he realized how 'we're asking our current customers' sounded - an incomplete marketing strategy.

I could be wrong. Perhaps we'll see Jim on the Canon and Nikon fora, starting threads, asking for Pentaxian-expats

.
It's not my job to figure it out - however, there are plenty of ex-Pentaxians on many Pentax forums, relentlessly explaining how they are so much happier after jumping ship. They're easy to find.
Yes, you could be wrong, and I can't understand why you're in such a hurry to assume the worst.
04-09-2013, 11:47 AM - 1 Like   #186
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I've learned from...

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
... and I can't understand why you're in such a hurry to assume the worst.
History.

Plus, I don't think I like the "well if you listen to the forums, you'd think everyone wanted FF!" snippy flavor of his response. He knows (or should know) that the majority of folks will not personally want or be able to afford FF, and that a survey of existing customers will not ever, ever show a majority asking for it. The same situation exists for Canon and Nikon, and it doesn't matter for a DSLR company that wants to stay a DSLR company, and he knows (or should know) that. Again, see the infamous Ford/GM survey results from the 70's and 80s.

I have to go in assuming the worst, because Jim is telling me to assume the worst.

.

Last edited by jsherman999; 04-09-2013 at 11:56 AM.
04-09-2013, 11:56 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I could be wrong. Perhaps we'll see Jim on the Canon and Nikon fora, starting threads, asking for Pentaxian-expats

.
Why would he need to do that? There are plenty on this forum...
04-09-2013, 12:13 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Why would he need to do that? There are plenty on this forum...
Not enough. Sticking to this forum would simply affirm the "Everything is sunny and the future is bright! Somehow!" misconception. I think it's too easy to discount the vocal few as malcontents, here

04-09-2013, 12:15 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
History.

Plus, I don't think I like the "well if you listen to the forums, you'd think everyone wanted FF!" snippy flavor of his response. He knows (or should know) that the majority of folks will not personally want or be able to afford FF, and that a survey of existing customers will not ever, ever show a majority asking for it. The same situation exists for Canon and Nikon, and it doesn't matter for a DSLR company that wants to stay a DSLR company, and he knows (or should know) that. Again, see the infamous Ford/GM survey results from the 70's and 80s.

I have to go in assuming the worst, because Jim is telling me to assume the worst.

.
What history? Is it related to Pentax? (because Pentax Ricoh is too young)

We have polls in this very forum stating that incredibly high percentages of us would buy a FF. There are many who constantly talk about it, even claiming the sky will surely fall if they won't release one tomorrow.
His words are just a cold shower, telling that FF is still single-digit figure,

Pentax is not Ford/GM.

Nope, he's not telling you to assume the worst; you're doing it by yourself. Don't blame others for your baseless pessimism!
04-09-2013, 12:22 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nope, he's not telling you to assume the worst; you're doing it by yourself. Don't blame others for your baseless pessimism!
Baseless? I'm basing my pessimism on the words that came out of the Marketing guy's mouth!

(should I blame Ben for misquoting him? I think Ben probably was pretty accurate in his transcription. Maybe it's like when Mike Tyson complained about being misquoted in his own auto-biography )

.
04-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
It's offensive to tell you that negative thinking is bad for your health? Heh. That's an established fact in psychology......
Really? I must have slept through that important fact in my coursework, practicum, and residency.
04-09-2013, 01:20 PM - 2 Likes   #192
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The Three Futures

.
Anyway, there are three possible outcomes that can affect us:

Outcome 1) Pentax is successful in their aps-c-only strategy and we see some strong market gains against the Big Three. We get some very nice new DA* and DA Limited glass that I like as much as This Lens. Jim makes CEO of the Americas and on each anniversary of his promotion sends me mocking emails.

Outcome 2) Pentax initiates a new lens roadmap that includes 35mm-capable lenses, including some new * and Limiteds, and then comes out with a sweet, smallish, sexy-sexy FF body that uses them. Aps-c is strengthened as a result with aps-c users buying the new lenses as well, and less defections - and more, new, Oly/Fuji/Panasonic/Samsung upgraders wanting a viable FF DSLR and who don't like the Canon/Nikon forced march. Thom Hogan is seen wearing an "SMC, Baby!" T-shirt.

Outcome 3) Apsc-only fails, because mirrorless and m43 ate up the lower end and entry-FF ate up the higher end of the consumer-enthusiast market. Pentax finally considers entering FF, but they have not been introducing new lenses for it, so they are years behind where they could have been had they been thinking a few moves ahead. aps-c revenue is stalled because current-owner upgraders don't see much to upgrade to, and new users see increasingly attractive, small m43 and mirrorless options. They're stuck. Ricoh considers a fire sale.

I hope we'll see #1 or #2. I argue that #2 is the best way, if K-mount DSLR is where you want your business to thrive. Even if we see #1 I promise to respond to every one of Jim's mocking emails with 'you were right.'



.

Last edited by jsherman999; 04-09-2013 at 01:28 PM.
04-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #193
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Let's turn down the heat on each other please and keep the discussion on Pentax.
There is no Pentax can do no wrong crowd. But some customers are easier to please than others.
There will always be negativity as some of us will never be satisfied with anything Pentax do, even if they do pull a FF camera out of the bag this year.
From Jim's point of view, he is likely to already know the financial health and customer satisfaction rating of Ricoh-Pentax, but would he be telling the whole truth to us as an executive? No, why would he paint a bleak and negative picture of what Pentax has been and currently struggling with?

So let's move on with what we know. Pentax isn't a big 3 contender, they are purposely a different niche market. Pentax do not have a FF camera, and probably won't have one until late 2014, if it passes through the marketing hoops. In the meantime, we have a fine K-5 II and products in the pipeline that will keep Pentax going and their niche client group (hopefully) inspired.
04-09-2013, 03:55 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Actually, they just announced it for the Japanese market - under the Pentax brand, of course, with a release date of 3rd May.
There you go ... :-)
Thanks for the info.
04-11-2013, 02:15 AM   #195
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Maybe i should just copy a post i mad 6 month or so ago.

For me the problem is that there is real communication to the customer what is going to happen.

Yeah we have a lens roadmap, nice, but what is their plan for the Bodies?

I think that i might be able to stick to pentax, but if i look at recent history i dont see that much change to the "hoya" time and to be host we are more that 20 Month after the merger and everytime we see something (more or less usefull) every "Pro-Pentax-Ricoh" person say " it is a leftover from hoya"

How long yoú intend to pull that card?

Pentax need communication more then ever.

The german facebook pentax site simply ignored people who ask about problems or shortcomings....


For me there is (right now) no real reason to stay at pentax except saving some money.
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