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04-11-2013, 02:53 AM   #196
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What ever happened to APS-H?

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
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Anyway, there are three possible outcomes that can affect us:

Outcome 1) Pentax is successful in their aps-c-only strategy and we see some strong market gains against the Big Three. We get some very nice new DA* and DA Limited glass that I like as much as This Lens. Jim makes CEO of the Americas and on each anniversary of his promotion sends me mocking emails.

Outcome 2) Pentax initiates a new lens roadmap that includes 35mm-capable lenses, including some new * and Limiteds, and then comes out with a sweet, smallish, sexy-sexy FF body that uses them. Aps-c is strengthened as a result with aps-c users buying the new lenses as well, and less defections - and more, new, Oly/Fuji/Panasonic/Samsung upgraders wanting a viable FF DSLR and who don't like the Canon/Nikon forced march. Thom Hogan is seen wearing an "SMC, Baby!" T-shirt.

Outcome 3) Apsc-only fails, because mirrorless and m43 ate up the lower end and entry-FF ate up the higher end of the consumer-enthusiast market. Pentax finally considers entering FF, but they have not been introducing new lenses for it, so they are years behind where they could have been had they been thinking a few moves ahead. aps-c revenue is stalled because current-owner upgraders don't see much to upgrade to, and new users see increasingly attractive, small m43 and mirrorless options. They're stuck. Ricoh considers a fire sale.

I hope we'll see #1 or #2. I argue that #2 is the best way, if K-mount DSLR is where you want your business to thrive. Even if we see #1 I promise to respond to every one of Jim's mocking emails with 'you were right.'



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04-11-2013, 03:48 AM - 1 Like   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mehlsack Quote
For me there is (right now) no real reason to stay at pentax except saving some money.
Just hang in there for a bit longer.

According to some, the K-3 was planned to be released earlier but issues with the sensor they used and perhaps a slowly progressing merging project deferred the launch. It has to count for something too that they don't release stuff that isn't quite up to snuff.

I personally will get myself a K-5 II now and then will have all the time in the world to wait for the FF model.

For anyone for whom upgrading their body to something better than the K-5 II would be nice to have but is not urgent, I'd recommend to wait a year or two more before abandoning Pentax. It may seem like a long time for us since the merger, but I can imagine that progress has been slow and that Ricoh is keen to have the next products to be recognizably better than what one would have been able to expect from Hoya/Pentax.
04-11-2013, 05:11 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
According to some, the K-3 was planned to be released earlier but issues with the sensor they used and perhaps a slowly progressing merging project deferred the launch. It has to count for something too that they don't release stuff that isn't quite up to snuff.
I've missed that one. Any sources?

Problems with the sensor? Cool, that means that they're not using the same 16mp from Sony again this time.
04-11-2013, 05:38 AM   #199
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The 24MP APS-C sensors currently on the market aren't that great; it sounds plausible that Pentax postponed their products because of this.
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
For anyone for whom upgrading their body to something better than the K-5 II would be nice to have but is not urgent, I'd recommend to wait a year or two more before abandoning Pentax. It may seem like a long time for us since the merger, but I can imagine that progress has been slow and that Ricoh is keen to have the next products to be recognizably better than what one would have been able to expect from Hoya/Pentax.
A sound advice; this year things will start moving.

04-11-2013, 06:20 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Just hang in there for a bit longer.

According to some, the K-3 was planned to be released earlier but issues with the sensor they used and perhaps a slowly progressing merging project deferred the launch. It has to count for something too that they don't release stuff that isn't quite up to snuff.
I have had 2 replacements of my K5 caused by sensor stain. It is easy to understand that Ricoh does'nt want to have the same kind of issue for their new camera, cause it has certainly costed to Hoya a lot of money, without speaking of the damage on the image of the brand. Have also a look on the Nikon forums they are full of complains on the D800 and D600 quality issues (AF, oil on sensor, and so on...)
04-11-2013, 07:12 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The 24MP APS-C sensors currently on the market aren't that great; it sounds plausible that Pentax postponed their products because of this.

A sound advice; this year things will start moving.
Again: sources? I'm not holding my breath for anything other then the K5II and K5IIs finally arriving in all kinds of colours.
04-11-2013, 07:30 AM   #202
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Take it as a rumor, if you wish.
I'm not holding my breath either (mostly because I know Pentax won't launch something in the next 2 minutes), but I expect new products this year. Really new products. And... they'll start quite soon, though not with a Pentax full frame.
04-11-2013, 07:50 AM   #203
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The K3 has indeed been postponed, the rest is speculation.

04-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #204
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Well if you consider that everything announced at photokina last year has been released now, we can expect new announcements in a near future...
04-11-2013, 08:06 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.
Outcome 2) Pentax initiates a new lens roadmap that includes 35mm-capable lenses, including some new * and Limiteds, and then comes out with a sweet, smallish, sexy-sexy FF body that uses them. Aps-c is strengthened as a result with aps-c users buying the new lenses as well, and less defections - and more, new, Oly/Fuji/Panasonic/Samsung upgraders wanting a viable FF DSLR and who don't like the Canon/Nikon forced march. Thom Hogan is seen wearing an "SMC, Baby!" T-shirt.
.
Or this can go another way, which I think is what some people are worried about:

Outcome 2, Alternate Version) Pentax initiates a new lens roadmap that includes 35mm-capable lenses, including some new * and Limiteds, and then comes out with a sweet, smallish, sexy-sexy FF body that uses them. New lenses for APS-C are only the cheapest entry-level models. The 11-16mm DA★ lens definitely never happens, and there's no mid/high-grade weather-sealed 30mm or 35mm normal prime. APS-C camera bodies keep being made, but features like autofocus microadjust, customizable user modes, and jPEG ★★★★ quality are dropped from that lineup and moved to full-frame. If you want a nice APS-C camera, you're encouraged to move to Nikon and the D7200 or some other system entirely. If you wanted to keep using your DA Limited lenses, there may be a crop-sensor mode on the new full-frame, but you still have to pay an extra $1000 to get it.

This isn't idle fear: it's exactly what Canon did with the 60D.
04-11-2013, 08:06 AM   #206
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Right. I suppose I can wait. I haven't bought any Pentax products in the past 18 months except for a pre-loved battery grip.

If an FF is announced I'll finally relieve the cash that's been burning a hole in my pocket. I'd love an FF-compact LX-1 (a la Sony RX100; big bro to the MX-1) for portability, and a FF K-3 plus a bunch of DFA* primes.
04-11-2013, 08:13 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
(...)

According to some, the K-3 was planned to be released earlier but issues with the sensor they used and perhaps a slowly progressing merging project deferred the launch. It has to count for something too that they don't release stuff that isn't quite up to snuff.

(...)
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I've missed that one. Any sources?

Problems with the sensor? Cool, that means that they're not using the same 16mp from Sony again this time.
I am afraid I am one of these "some".

The 24 Mpixels Sony sensor you find in NEX-7 for example suffers from crosstalk. This is a fact confirmed by the test of many non-retrofocus wide angles and ultra fast standard to short telephoto lenses with symmetrical design (aka double Gauss).

I was told by a very reliable source (which, for example, told me about a relatively cheap 24x36 Nikon body months before the first rumour concerning the D600 appeared on the internet) that Pentax abandoned the "original" K-3 with 24 Mpixels Sony sensor in favour of a "refreshed" K-5, i.e. K-5 II, when they discovered, quite late during the development phase, how poorly the prototype behaved with some prestigious lenses (FA Limiteds).

I don't know whether there is any relation with the above but the brochure distributed by Pentax during the "Salon de la Photo" (Paris, November 2012) did not include the FA Limiteds. Oddly, A converters (1.4x and 2x, S and L versions) were included though so it's not a matter of "film" glass vs "digital" glass.

Again, the brochure published recently by PRIC doesn't mention the three amigos, see http://c2b6d376b97bcc466063-5420c200a1f030d1394a9548df6eadbd.r5.cf2.rackcdn...._121912_LR.pdf

(found on Yvon Bourque's blog, see PENTAX DSLRs: New Brochure of Pentax lenses and accessories. Free download)
04-11-2013, 08:33 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Well if you consider that everything announced at Photokina last year has been released now, we can expect new announcements in a near future...
On the other hand, they are still to launch:

- the wide-angle XS lens shown at CP+ 2012, more than a year ago (it could have been cancelled together with the K-0x product line, though)


- AF360FGZ II shown at CP+ 2013 ("Market launch scheduled for summer 2013")

- the Mount Cap Lens (pinhole lens) shown at CP+ 2012 and again at CP+ 2013 ("Market launch scheduled for summer 2013")

not to forget the lenses figuring on the various roadmaps:

- K mount: DA Wide Zoom, DA Zoom Limited, DA* Zoom, DA Tele Zoom, DA AF RC 1.4x

- Q mount: Wide Lens, Telephoto Macro Lens

- Pentax 645 mount: Wide Zoom, Standard Zoom, Tele Zoom
04-11-2013, 08:45 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I've missed that one. Any sources?
I've read it on this forum.

See Mistral75's message.

This sounds plausible to me since the NEX-7 sensor is known to cause purple discolouration with old-style wide-angle lenses, a problem the NEX-5 sensor does not suffer from. I'm not sure whether it is crosstalk or a microlens issue resulting from too oblique incident angles, but I could imagine that Pentax wanted to avoid the respective problems.
04-11-2013, 09:13 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
On the other hand, they are still to launch:

- the wide-angle XS lens shown at CP+ 2012, more than a year ago (it could have been cancelled together with the K-0x product line, though)


- AF360FGZ II shown at CP+ 2013 ("Market launch scheduled for summer 2013")

- the Mount Cap Lens (pinhole lens) shown at CP+ 2012 and again at CP+ 2013 ("Market launch scheduled for summer 2013")

not to forget the lenses figuring on the various roadmaps:

- K mount: DA Wide Zoom, DA Zoom Limited, DA* Zoom, DA Tele Zoom, DA AF RC 1.4x

- Q mount: Wide Lens, Telephoto Macro Lens

- Pentax 645 mount: Wide Zoom, Standard Zoom, Tele Zoom
I had forgotten about the wide-angle XS lens shown at CP+ 2012, wasn't there some speculation at the time that it would not work in a dSLR because of the protruding rear component? If that is the case then I can see it being dropped.
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