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04-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Please! When this toy came out, I hated the idea of fly dropping sized sensor in a MILC. Now I can see that some obscure uses such as digiscoping could use a camera like this. But "most exciting category"? What the heck is he smoking?
In your not-so-humble opinon.

04-05-2013, 10:13 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
...Q10...It also apperently sells well...
Based on what source?
04-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
The interview is telling me that I should not wait any longer for a full frame Pentax camera. Instead, I should begin my migration to another system (most likely Nikon). I've been holding off on making that move since it seemed inevitable that Pentax would join the FF market in due time. My timetable for waiting for Pentax was that I needed something by Fall of this year or 1st quarter of 2014 at the latest. I'd love to have one now.

Having handled the D800 & D600 and falling in love with the big bright viewfinder and reading where Pentax is heading, I believe that I will begin my exit from Pentax almost immediately. After 33 years with Pentax, I'm saddened by the prospect of changing systems, but waiting no longer seems to be an option.

Initially, I will buy into the Nikon FX system for my business needs and continue to use my K5 and stash of lenses for hobby use. In the long run, however, I will sell off my lenses and convert everything over to Nikon.
Won't the Pentax USA suit look foolish if the company presents a full-frame camera later this year? Only a few days ago, this site was reeling with rumors that a Pentax FF was imminent. Those rumors may or may not be true - but I am convinced the home office doesn't always share its secrets with the regionals. Remember, this guy is a salesman. He wants you to buy what he now has to sell you. He doesn't want you waiting for something in the pipeline. That said, there is much he is saying that is true. There is a lot of groundwork and proper research that must be done if Ricoh-Pentax is to prepare for long-term growth. It may be boring to Pentaxians pining for the Next Big Thing but the proper foundation must be laid now.
04-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In your not-so-humble opinon.
In my not so humble opinion I wish I could ignore you but apparently you're a mod or something?

04-05-2013, 10:16 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I am not a business man...but I am wondering. Do you think that Nikon and Canon, with their D600 and 6D, set the prices of those cameras so low just to keep Sony and maybe even Pentax from being able to compete in the FF market, knowing that they could not meet those prices....kinda like standard oil? They are willing to eat pretty heavy losses with those cameras just to keep current marketshare and eliminate the up and comers (which PRIC may be considered since Ricoh acquired them). Just a thought.
They don't have to be that explicitly predatory. All they have to do is differentiate the market into so many small slices that no smaller competitor can make a profit in any one slice - while they enjoy economies of scale of shared components and brand image marketing.

That is called a Brand Differentiation Barrier to Entry. It is weaker than a patent or a technology advantage but very effectiove nonetheless.
04-05-2013, 10:46 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
The interview is telling me that I should not wait any longer for a full frame Pentax camera.
You should realize this is Pentax Imaging (USA) we're talking about, which is responsible for marketing and distributing the existing Pentax products; and not Pentax Japan, which is (also) responsible for developing new ones. And it was Pentax Japan who said they're working on a full frame camera. Ignore those silly rumors; check Kitazawa-san's interviews.
But it will take a while, so if you need it I suppose jumping ship is OK.

QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Won't the Pentax USA suit look foolish if the company presents a full-frame camera later this year? Only a few days ago, this site was reeling with rumors that a Pentax FF was imminent. Those rumors may or may not be true - but I am convinced the home office doesn't always share its secrets with the regionals. Remember, this guy is a salesman. He wants you to buy what he now has to sell you. He doesn't want you waiting for something in the pipeline. That said, there is much he is saying that is true. There is a lot of groundwork and proper research that must be done if Ricoh-Pentax is to prepare for long-term growth. It may be boring to Pentaxians pining for the Next Big Thing but the proper foundation must be laid now.
I don't think Pentax USA would look foolish talking about the existing products, due to the context mentioned above.
The FF comment was based on people's feedback, so again, they won't look foolish for simply gathering feedback.
04-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #52
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I agree with the comment about the visible upgrade path. Everyone dreams of having the big expensive gear. There is no need to dream about it if Pentax doesn't offer it...but Nikon and Canon on the other hand...

I also agree that with these lackluster comments about FF I will begin planning for my Pentax gear sell off and transition to Nikon I suppose. I will no doubts have a second body that is a cropped sensor, but full frame is definitely a next step for me..so having a brand that offers both is very appealing.
04-05-2013, 11:56 AM   #53
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But what kind of comments were you expecting?
It seems to me you already made up your minds, and were just looking for an excuse. Well, you don't need an excuse in order to jump ship...

04-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
...and pentax makes multiple APS-Cs and still languishes faaaar behind Canikon. Clearly what they are doing now is not going to get them increased marketshare.
They have been on a steady increase in marketshare and currently outsells Sony. The coming model above the K-5II and the entry level below the K-30 will only increase their share.
Theres no way an FF camera will give Pentax significant higher marketshare. That fight has to be fought where the volume is...
04-05-2013, 12:26 PM   #55
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Honestly I expect them to say something other than "Well it seems there's not *that* much demand, so we're good."

I've been around the block in corporate America, and when I read something like that, it honestly feels like he's trying a tired tactic frequently used by corporate execs. "We don't do this well, but we're going to convince you it doesn't matter."

I'm not sure exactly what he wants to analyse about people that jump ship. I'm a perfect example. I haven't made up my mind by any means, but I'm definately extremely close to following fellow Pentaxians advice and owning both Nikon and Pentax gear, and that's not the first step in jumping ship.
04-05-2013, 12:30 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They have been on a steady increase in marketshare and currently outsells Sony. The coming model above the K-5II and the entry level below the K-30 will only increase their share.
Theres no way an FF camera will give Pentax significant higher marketshare. That fight has to be fought where the volume is...
I think you're right in that the fight has to be for the new customers, but it certainly doesn't hurt to hold on to the top end with a prestige product. Even if its only updated every 4 years or so like the 645d.
04-05-2013, 12:47 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They have been on a steady increase in marketshare and currently outsells Sony. The coming model above the K-5II and the entry level below the K-30 will only increase their share.
Theres no way an FF camera will give Pentax significant higher marketshare. That fight has to be fought where the volume is...
They outsell sony because Sony baaaarely even plays in the DSLR world. It is obvious that they have put their top efforts into NEX. How will releasing yet another entry level camera in the crowded Rebel/D3xxx/D5xxx make a dent in the Canikon juggernaut? As for an enthusiast top end APS-C, they already had that with the K-5...did that put a dent in Canikon's marketshare? And if the K-3 is priced a few hundred dollars more than the K-5II, you think the average consumer is going to get that or the full frame D600/6D?
04-05-2013, 12:51 PM - 1 Like   #58
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I was disappointed in his comments regarding full frame. I agree with others that in order for Pentax to compete with the big boys it needs to develop a full range of products and that includes a complete line of full frame products.
04-05-2013, 01:08 PM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But what kind of comments were you expecting?
It seems to me you already made up your minds, and were just looking for an excuse. Well, you don't need an excuse in order to jump ship...
I have 18 lenses, 4 Pentax DSLRs and 3 compatible flash units. Already made up my mind? I've been trying very patiently to find a reason to stay with Pentax, not to jump ship. Pentax's lack of vision and upgrade path has been apparent for some time, but I have stuck by them hoping that they would soon provide an upgrade path from APS-C to Full Frame.

The comments I want to hear is something along the lines of "we hear the Pentax enthusiasts clamoring for a full frame camera and we intend to compete in that market." Not, as a follow up to a few interviewed users saying that they didn't need a full frame that "so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that we’ve done internally and it’s a little bit rewarding..." That comment basically throws cold water on those of us who have stuck by Pentax patiently waiting for a full frame DSLR. It's almost like he's saying to us that Pentax has no plans to provide a FF camera, so just like what we offer or just move along, because our internal research says that no one really need a full frame camera, especially from Pentax.

My mind was set to stick with Pentax, but this interview placed serious doubt in my mind that a full frame DSLR is coming at all, rather than coming in due time. That's the way I read his comments.
04-05-2013, 01:41 PM   #60
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Yes, that's how it seems to me. I'm not saying this as an accusation, and in fact I understand how you're feeling; holding on, hoping to see something month after month. At some point the gentlest push will tip the balance.

But if you were patiently waiting and this specific interview made you give up... well, Mr. Malcolm couldn't possibly say "we intend to compete in that market" at this stage, he won't be able to until Pentax Japan will say so.
OTOH, Kitazawa-san said things like "First, we are discussing development of FF SLR. We are touching base with a sensor manufacturer and proceeding the process of development towards production. [...]However, as we understand we can’t launch products right after conclusion, we are in parallel developing aside from making marketing story. This is current status." and "We are developing towards commercial production and will definitely launch though, it is the matter of whether it makes sense or not for Pentax to produce similar FF SLR to others and slightly smaller & lighter FF Lenses than others. As to time frame, it is under advanced development towards 2013 or later. You can expect that."
It would be strange to act on Mr. Malcolm's interview (which wasn't about development of new products, Pentax USA isn't developing the new products) and ignore what the Head of Business Development at Pentax Ricoh Japan said.
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