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04-06-2013, 12:07 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by timo Quote
From that interview it sounds as it the integration process with Ricoh has taken longer than anyone expected.
I don't personally care that much anymore since I'm mostly shooting m43 nowadays and my three Pentax DSLRs work still OKish when I want to use them. But I can't help thinking that all the talk of Ricoh's big plans and investments in Pentax were just that: talk. Perhaps the world economy is so bad that their hands are tied. Or perhaps cameras are so small part of Ricoh's business that they want to avoid risks and costs.

04-06-2013, 01:27 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It can mean they are running out of excuses. Fact s, they have released NOTHING new and wholly developed under the Ricoh reign (even the MX-1 suggests it was started before).
Why would stating the truth be considered an excuse?

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
This is becoming another 24 pages long FF thread. All because Jim wasn't more careful about nuances and poured a cold shower over many passionate about the brand's future.
The funny thing is, it wasn't his personal opinion - but the feedback he got from us. Yes, it appears we don't really want FF
However, the Pentaxians sample used is most likely heavily biased towards people satisfied with APS-C. I hope Jim will take this into consideration (and it seems he will) before sending such feedback to the mothership.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The one good part of the interview is that Jim Malcolm gets that Pentaxians are passionate.

The rest is extremely disappointing, AFAIC. Let me summarise:
  • They see no point in offering an FF model. (Either he ignored some voices, pre-selected interviewees, or there was some really off-chance bias in the interviewees; I don't believe for a second that his "Pentaxians love APS-C and reject FF"-message is representative. N.B. the Facebook screenshot of Jim's offer to talk to Pentaxians shows one user question: "When comes FF?" and there are four more such requests in the original Facebook thread out of 35+ contributors).
  • They don't want to compete on price (but instead liase with the dying breed of B&M shops that need big margins)
  • They don't advertise in any significant way (not part of the interview but a fact).
And then they ask themselves why customers leave the brand.

Really?
1. That was the feedback he received.
2. People are complaining about Pentax not being available in B&M stores, but when they're trying to correct that, it's "extremely disappointing"?
3. It's not in the interview but it's one of the "extremely disappointing" things about the interview. And customers will leave the brand if they're not fed with advertising. OK...
04-06-2013, 03:11 AM - 1 Like   #93
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Mr Malcolm sounds like a highly competent and energetic person who is making the best of what he has and who is doing far more to keep in touch with his customers than almost anyone else. It's admirable, surely. Even so, there is a lot of dissonance in what he says. For example, Ricoh cameras get talked up - but these have been pretty well a dead brand for a couple of years now. Like the fabled Norwegian Blue, are Ricoh cameras "just sleeping" or actually toes up and gone? No one seems to be saying.

So like others here, I'm very grateful for his interview but unsure whether behind the talk (from Pentax generally, not singling out Mr Malcolm here) there is really any substance when you compare the stated goal - becoming one of the world's top three imaging companies - with present realities.

In the meantime, the most fruitful tipster of them all (imho), asahiman on dpreview, says there is no FF on the current roadmap which stretches into early 2014.
04-06-2013, 03:42 AM   #94
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Perhaps he's trying to introduce the Ricoh brand to Pentaxians? It's not a dead brand, that's for certain, but it would need any help it can get.

asahiman sounds convincing; and from Kitazawa-san's interviews I didn't expect a FF until the end of the year, at the earliest. I am assuming it would be co-developed with a new high-end APS-C body (to reduce costs), and we'll see that first. And they can't ignore the high volume entry and mid-level, that's how they will gain market share.
Be patient (if you have any reserve left, if not - blame Hoya and move on), this is the year in which Pentax Ricoh will start introducing their new products; and the product you want will not necessarily be the first.

04-06-2013, 03:54 AM   #95
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Pentax FF with SR please.

I have been dreaming of a new Pentax FF with Pentax SR.

I dont think any of the Canikons FFs has built in SR do they?
Nice advantage that would be and probably luring a few canikoners to atleast buy one Pentax FF to use with their older manual lenses.

I have a bunch of old FD lenses converted to P/K mount and I would love to use them on an FF with SR.
As an example; My Fd 400mm F4,5 works great on my K5 but it outperforms the camera by far. Everytime I start pixelpeeping I start crying.
I need more resolution and less noise to really enjoy my great old 400mm tele.
The bigger and brighter viewfinder would also help with the manual focusing and framing.


If theres no FF with SR by fall Ill jump ship to Nikon.
Maybe I can afford to keep my Pentax lenses a while just in case....
04-06-2013, 04:00 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Be patient (if you have any reserve left, if not - blame Hoya and move on), this is the year in which Pentax Ricoh will start introducing their new products; and the product you want will not necessarily be the first.
I don't think that we really need to see everything, including the FF DSLR, right now in April.
What users would like to see, if I assume correctly, is something truly promising, and material (not just verbal promises).
Say, an APS-C, 20-24 MP DSLR camera, better than K-5II.
Then, an updated version of the DA*16-50 lens.
An improved flash unit. Something like that.

Not too much for start, but something true-r and bold-er than the stop gap K5II and another cheapo kit lens.
That would show things are really moving forward.
04-06-2013, 04:05 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Perhaps he's trying to introduce the Ricoh brand to Pentaxians? It's not a dead brand, that's for certain, but it would need any help it can get.

asahiman sounds convincing; and from Kitazawa-san's interviews I didn't expect a FF until the end of the year, at the earliest. I am assuming it would be co-developed with a new high-end APS-C body (to reduce costs), and we'll see that first. And they can't ignore the high volume entry and mid-level, that's how they will gain market share.
Be patient (if you have any reserve left, if not - blame Hoya and move on), this is the year in which Pentax Ricoh will start introducing their new products; and the product you want will not necessarily be the first.
Hmmn, if Ricoh had a GRD IV ++ out (i.e. slightly more recent sensor, etc.) I would have bought it every time over the MX-1. Does sound a fab cam, though costly, but both it and the GXR have slipped below the radar here in the UK. Interestingly, SRS who many consider the country's #1 Pentax dealer have recently started stocking a lot (not all) of the Ricoh range having had almost nothing for a long, long while - but all at reduced Special Offer prices. Stoking up interest in Ricoh while also making space in the warehouse for something new? Make of it what you will.

I'm not bothered about FF personally though I can see the argument that it's at the least a marketing tool Pentax may have to have. It comes when it comes, I guess. TBH, if Ricoh cams are rejuvenated in the same kind of vein they've followed to date, I'd find it more tempting to change from Pentax to them than to anything else. I've tried both the D600 and the 6D - a great deal to like about them, above all the beeeg viewfinder. But character and that "something special" feel, to me they didn't have.

Last edited by mecrox; 04-06-2013 at 04:15 AM.
04-06-2013, 04:06 AM   #98
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Uluru: I'm not talking about April, when I doubt we'll see any Pentax camera I'm sure we'll see truly promising products this year.

04-06-2013, 04:22 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Uluru: I'm not talking about April, when I doubt we'll see any Pentax camera I'm sure we'll see truly promising products this year.
I don't doubt they will release 'something'. But they are not loyal to their users, they let them rot in the limbo.

They should learn from Apple: during the first showcase of the iPhone in public, the device an its OS was not ready at all. The development was progressing quite well, but the device was not ready even for the preview.
However, Steve Jobs risked, smartly. He had to be careful which screen buttons to press during the presentation because most were dummies — just graphic props. Apple knew time was critical, but wanted people's eagerness, drive and energy. They wanted to ignite people's imagination, to talk about iPhone and wait for the iPhone rather than buy competitors' phones in the meantime. That commitment also helped development team — they knew they must outdo themselves.

And Apple was rewarded! It was a masterful tension building and release.

Do you notice the attitude difference? The enormous risk? The loyalty and commitment to customers? The desire to please them and ignite imagination?

So while Pentax Ricoh waits to release 'something', they will lose something valuable too, and they will have a hard time restoring it back. It's one step forward, two steps back. They can NEVER be world's no. 3 — they'll be too lucky just to stay in the game.

Last edited by Uluru; 04-06-2013 at 04:32 AM.
04-06-2013, 04:32 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I don't doubt they will release 'something'. But they are not loyal to their users, they let them rot in the limbo.
Who did that? Pentax Ricoh? I don't think so...
I can hardly blame Pentax for what Hoya did to them.

I have no need for unfinished products; I don't care about marketing and closed systems. I'd rather have Pentax making well-thought photographic tools instead.
By the way, there's no such thing as Apple's loyalty to their customers; it's the other way around.
04-06-2013, 05:05 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by zosxavius Quote
@monochrome: pentax debuted a FF camera. I think hoya killed off the project and canned FF to keep production costs down.
That would be the MZ-D, it was killed around 2001 or 2002, way before Hoya. It was killed because the sensor was not very good...

Contax did release a camera with the same sensor. They promptly went out of business...
04-06-2013, 05:08 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Who did that? Pentax Ricoh? I don't think so...
I can hardly blame Pentax for what Hoya did to them.

I have no need for unfinished products; I don't care about marketing and closed systems. I'd rather have Pentax making well-thought photographic tools instead.
By the way, there's no such thing as Apple's loyalty to their customers; it's the other way around.
Did Hoya taught them to be uncommunicative?
Re Apple, as stated in different thread, modern marketing idea of brand loyalty starts from the company brand loyalty describes how much company is loyal to its users/customers.
Not the other way round. A year ago I was excited when I heard Ricoh had parts of such view in their own philosophy. I'm still waiting to see it working ..
04-06-2013, 05:26 AM   #103
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Hoya made sure they don't have much to communicate
04-06-2013, 07:24 AM   #104
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Indeed I do understand that much of the technology and many of the parts of any camera are interchangeable. In film days Pentax released cameras that had the 1/1000 shutter setting unmarked on their budget bodies, but the parts permitted 1/1000 if you just turned the dial past 1/500. f/2 lenses were faster lenses with baffles installed to cripple them.

Engineering the actual camera might not cost much money (though I suspect engineering IBIS for the larger sensor is a costly challenge), but releasing a FF camera into the wild, with little marketing, current flash, AF, lenses and distribution in the USA could be a disaster.

Developing a proper product strategy taking into account all the costs associated with building a successful FF system, I imagine, would be very costly - and securities analysts write about that as a risk to Ricoh. Really and truly, outside analysts think FF is a risk for the parent company.

But then I just read. I'm not an engineer and I'm not a product manager, so I know nothing.

Last edited by monochrome; 04-06-2013 at 09:05 AM.
04-06-2013, 07:43 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by aliasant Quote
I have been dreaming of a new Pentax FF with Pentax SR.

I dont think any of the Canikons FFs has built in SR do they?
They don't, but Sony does.
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