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04-06-2013, 09:12 AM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by timo Quote
From that interview it sounds as it the integration process with Ricoh has taken longer than anyone expected. On FF the guy simply wasn't giving anything away, one way or the other. Nor did the two senior Japanese guys interviewed recently. No doubt a lot of development work has been done on a FF camera. But launching one requires a huge long-term investment in FF-compatible lens production. It wouldn't surprise me at all if took a long time to get such a major strategic decision made. It's a lot more than just a marketing gesture to benefit the range as a whole, although I can see the argument for that. Anyway, Japanese companies are 'top down' in their management culture, and if the head of the US distribution arm hasn't been 'authorised' to talk about an upcoming FF range, he just isn't going to do it, whatever forum members might want.

A FF system could be announced in weeks. Or it might never be announced. Neither would surprise me on the evidence we have (or don't have).

Pentax's priority at the moment (I would guess, given the unsettled history) is to show some decent figures with what they have got. That way they will gain the credibility they must need within the Ricoh group to get the capital that would be needed for a FF line with any depth.
This is one of the better posts produced on this subject. In addition, Pentax must know they can't come out with a half-baked or even three quarter-baked offering and expect to succeed. Therefore, I don't think we should expect any kind of confirmation of a future FF camera until they are nearly 100% certain they have a truly compelling product/system offering. This is not an easy task, either. They have to sort out which features and performance levels will be desired or demanded and then have to determine if they can meet those targets (and develop the technologies to do it).

04-06-2013, 10:10 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
If by many you mean one or two....
C'mon how many people clamor for a downgrade path? That is just silly.

It isn't necessarily a downgrade path but a sidestep.
There are many on this forum coming to Pentax from FF. Just read the various threads.
04-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The one good part of the interview is that Jim Malcolm gets that Pentaxians are passionate.
.
Pentax reps generally really don't have any idea about future products unless the are already got the go ahead and provided with product number for preordering. Pentax US is concerned with selling what Pentax already have. Pentax have no FF camera.

And customers doesn't leave the Pentax brand. The brand is on the increase. Sony, however is on the decrease in spite of FF (or because of it?). But then marketshare in the DSLR field is never going to be about FF...
04-06-2013, 02:10 PM   #109
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Marketing people are very smooth.
"the integration process with Ricoh has taken longer than anyone expected" means "We have really serious problems with the merge" (maybe the biggest problem was idea to merge design departments itself). As a result the common designing department is malfunction and abitious statements of Ricoh of lst year wanished
Personally, I do not like Mr Malcolm's interview, it seems he created problems for Sony in past and will do it for Pentax now.

04-06-2013, 02:35 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by bvg Quote
Marketing people are very smooth.
"the integration process with Ricoh has taken longer than anyone expected" means "We have really serious problems with the merge" (maybe the biggest problem was idea to merge design departments itself). As a result the common designing department is malfunction and abitious statements of Ricoh of lst year wanished
Personally, I do not like Mr Malcolm's interview, it seems he created problems for Sony in past and will do it for Pentax now.
And you know that how? Are you a wizard?
04-06-2013, 03:33 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
And you know that how? Are you a wizard?


It's really funny watching everyone wantonly read their biggest hopes and (mostly) fears into Mr. Malcolm's comments.
04-06-2013, 04:55 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
There are plenty of high-spending APS-C users, too.
Thanks to their recent pricing "strategies" if you're a current Pentax APS-C user and you want a high end (current lens) you're in this category like it or not

If the Veep happens to be reading this (hopefully he is, I think this forum can provide very valuable market research from many passionate and knowledgeable Pentax users) I had a lot of money invested in a nice Pentax collection that I had built up over about 6 years since purchasing the K100D way back. Full blown Pentax LBA with no end in sight Spent >$2k a year the last few years running on Pentax cameras and lenses. Due to my current main form of shooting - kids indoors with a "need" for better video features (I know many Pentax users would rather not have Pentax spend a dime on video features that could be spent on R&D elsewhere which I fully understand) many of these lenses were sitting around not being used at all. I initially thought, no problem, as the kids grow up we'll start getting out more and I'll get more use out of my gear, most of which I was extremely happy with. As prices started doing the yo-yo on a seemingly weekly basis and I looked at some of my lenses that I bought on the high side of the yo-yo, I became a very nervous investor and decided it was time to take my losses Pretty depressing at the time to be honest but "collecting" Pentax lenses (which many Pentax users seem to do, hard not to as there are a lot of gems to choose from) didn't make sense for me anymore...
04-06-2013, 05:49 PM - 1 Like   #113
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Argh !!! 12 years over due & still no 24x36 K Mount !!!

Hey Ben,
I see you've left the great South West for Boston. Wild Times for you & yours !

I still sit on about $6,000 in K Mount glass & assessories.
1/2 of what I once owned since 2002 from Pentax Japan.

I bought into Canon full frame in 2008, added Nikon D700 & various glass for both in 2009. Between Canon and Nikon I've spent easily more than 10,000 US Dollar Bills.
More coin than current cost a Pentax 645D Body Only runs new.

I love full frame 24x36, yet Pentax/Pentax, Pentax/Hoya, now Ricoh/Pentax CONTINUES TO IGNORE me, a full frame 24x36 buyer. Pentax has gained zero dollars from me since 2008.

Zero. Nada. Zilch.

Nikon, Canon scored thousands while Pentax got/gets zero from me, one guy with a wife who shoots too.

Crap, am I "The Pentaxian" Pentax USA wants to hear from in 2013 ???

Really ???

Ricoh ! Make a D600 like or 6D like K mount & be done with it, then I'll have another choice to shop and consider

My first autofocus film camera will always be Pentax which was bought new & my last Pentax dslr bought new "K20" arrived in 2008. Then "I shopped elsewhere" and continue to do so............

I still look here at PF, love the Pentax forums layout & open minded info format, but I am beyond tired of waiting for 24x36 Pentax !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do I need to wait for another buy out of Pentax & then another two years to get it all in order ???????????

For info thesedays I read how fed up remaining current Ricoh owners are pissing around & just waiting for something promised in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 from Ricoh.... at the same time Pentax remaining owners think Ricoh will save the day.

Whatever, I am over it.............................

Well that is when it comes to opening my wallet Pentax is not my 1st or 2nd choice.
Promises made yet Ricoh GXR Products remain vaporeware. Bummer for those believing in the Ricoh "Dream. Maybe Ricoh doesn't care about dslr imaging, as copiers are so profitable. Why bother ? $124 Million was nothing to spend to kill off the Pentax Dslr system, and at same time they can kill off the Ricoh System too. Ricoh why not Be Done with it all and just make copiers, Brilliant !

Maybe I get a K-5IIs or Canon 7D for $50 more or most likely a 5DIII for next Christmas. Canon 5DIII with new f8 AF function firmare is most compelling.

Nikon seems plagued with QC problems like Pentax had with K-5, so at the moment Canon wins my many considerations. What matters to me and the wife ??? Full frame is 1st & foremost. Pentax is a great memory. Time to recoup my gear cost & move along with something else.

I cannot imagine spending any money on anything new from Ricoh Pentax in 2013 or 2014.
100 colors Pentax Q10, I have zero interest no money for you Ricoh:


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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote


It's really funny watching everyone wantonly read their biggest hopes and (mostly) fears into Mr. Malcolm's comments.



Last edited by Samsungian; 04-06-2013 at 05:56 PM.
04-06-2013, 07:09 PM   #114
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Quote:

What kind of feedback have you gotten so far?
"Its all over the map (laughs). Ill tell you the most interesting piece to me, the most interesting finding, was almost everybody says, Im not going to beat you up on full frame, because Im sure that horse has been beaten. In a way, I dont really need full frame. Im super happy with the product that I have. The weight of it, the weather sealing, just the overall size of the product. Maybe somebody needs full frame, but its not for me."

Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that weve done internally and its a little bit rewarding...
End of quote




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04-06-2013, 07:11 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pl Jensen Quote
And I dismiss the notion that Pentax can realistically make an ber super FF camera or an FF camera cheaper than anyone else.
However, Pentax appeal to the enthusiast; it is not a default choice. Often bought after research. In fact, many coming from other brands actually find Pentax appealing because they have emphasized the APS format with a very nice APS lens line-up underlining the format strenghts. I don't think Pentax can do the same trick for FF; among other things they don't have the FF lens line-up of Nikon and Canon.
There are in fact no shortage of people switching from FF to Pentax, either totally or complement their FF gear. I do think Pentax enthusiast are equally likely to spend as some FF users from other brands. LBA is widespread among the Pentax fans...
Yeah, this. And specifically, in the interview, Jim Malcom says that market research into Pentax buyers beyond "the Internet and the forums" indicates that this is a very strong view.

I'm pretty happy to hear this, because, honestly, if Pentax makes a big full-frame play in a way that sets aside interest and innovation in the enthusiast APS-C space, I'm switching to Fujifilm, who have jumped into that headfirst. (The XF primes are every bit as attractive as the Limiteds!)
04-06-2013, 07:35 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Yeah, this. ...(The XF primes are every bit as attractive as the Limiteds!)
With focus by wire, without a proper MF and without a DOF scale? You really must be joking.
You simply cannot shoot with Fuji X mount cameras off your heap, or anywhere below your eyesight because you must confirm the damn focus with a camera in front of your eyes. Fuji have cut cost in development of the X series so severely that X cameras are nothing but large P&S cameras.
Even Q lenses have better focus by wire implementation.

Last edited by Uluru; 04-06-2013 at 07:48 PM.
04-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The one good part of the interview is that Jim Malcolm gets that Pentaxians are passionate.
I think the reason pentaxians are passionate and more informed photographers is partially out of necessity. There are some key inferiorities of Pentax compared to C/N that prevents people from getting anything more than okay results if they don't understand how photography works. It is kind of like saying that the average Linux user is more informed about computers than the average Windows or Mac user, it is true because just to do the basics in Linux you need to know more about computing than the average windows or OS X user and there is no one patronizing your ignorance or ineptitude by making it dead simple to use.

When I joined the pentax fold a couple years ago, their system provided a great value proposition, for about $2500 you could get a kit including a WR camera which stabilized all lenses, WR f2.8 lenses from 16-50 and 50-135, a 50 mm f1.4, and their top of the line flash. That was during the K-7 era, so of course the sacrifices you made by choosing pentax included mainly inferior AF, flash, video, and other idiot proofing features from C/N that let people to use DSLRs like they use point-and-shoots. Now that would cost north of $4000 on pentax, compared to what canon or nikon offer the pentax system is still a little cheaper and outclasses C/N in terms of WR and stabilizing all lenses but most of the value has been wiped out by UPP and the three biggest deficiencies are still outstanding. And with Canon or Nikon, to get the equivalent angle of view at equivalent speed you would need to go up to FF and pay the price in cost as well as weight for that gear. I am sticking with Pentax, but it will be interesting to see if they try to step up with better features geared towards the mass market with idiot-proofed APS-C cameras, enthusiasts with more/better APS-C primes, or professional photographers with an updated FF system.
04-06-2013, 08:22 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
With focus by wire, without a proper MF and without a DOF scale? You really must be joking.
You simply cannot shoot with Fuji X mount cameras off your heap, or anywhere below your eyesight because you must confirm the damn focus with a camera in front of your eyes.
Fortunately, I'm not planning to shoot off my heap.

Really, none of those are concerns of mine, and you must know that they're not concerns of a large enough segment of photographers with an approach other than yours to know that one doesn't have to be joking to say so.

That said, the XF 14mm does have a distance scale. *shrug*

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Fuji have cut cost in development of the X series so severely that X cameras are nothing but large P&S cameras.
The evidence does not really support that view. There's plenty of weird quirks, but they're more around unique new designs and almost-crazy ideas, not around cost-cutting and P&S-ism.
04-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #119
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To be honest, I'd love to be out in Colorado, samsungian. Job was here, though.
04-07-2013, 02:55 AM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote


It's really funny watching everyone wantonly read their biggest hopes and (mostly) fears into Mr. Malcolm's comments.
Yes, of course, because the VP of Pentax USA suddenly is the head of R&D Japan or even the CEO or something like that.

Even in western companies such a person is pretty low down the food chain when it comes to decisions about technology.
Now, this is a Japanese company. His responsibility is the U.S. and nothing else. Certainly, he's not involved in the decision process about new technology.
He might not even know everything (being a new guy in the company doesn't help).

Indeed funny how so many people are overreacting these days. It might be a better choice to switch to Leica. They're pretty consistent. Better for the mood.
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