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04-04-2013, 07:09 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I do understand that point. However, on fora like these you do not have the same time pressure you do with things like Twitter and other more stream of consciousness outlets. They could take time, albeit not days, to formulate a response and have others look it over too. Venturing in, not knowing your line, acting like a child and taking your ball and going home, are worse IMHO than never venturing into the forum in the first place. Adam does more to market Pentax in 1 day than Pentax USA has done in the past year and he answers questions, and makes occasional mistakes (yes, its true), all the time. Perhaps Pentax needs to hire someone like Heie or Adam who know their stuff, are enthusiastic about the equipment, and can convey that to others?
I think your last sentence is key. The real step forward is to start recruiting out of the box and look at people that know their equipment as their back pocket and walks the modern media as smooth as a slender cat in the night. Old businessmen only takes you so far but sadly today that is how far most companies are willing to take chances with their recruitment.

Take a guy like Adam or Heie as you mentioned and put them on a payroll to secure them for the future but give them free hands to continue as before but with the addition of more direct feedback to the top guns. As soon as you quiet their mouths or want the to start sweet mouthing in every opportunity you pretty much destroys their possible honest feedback.

04-04-2013, 07:24 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
In the interview just published on "Digital Camera Info" Jim Malcolm, Pentax's Exec. VP for the US said:

"So unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to talk with anybody in our most exciting category, which is the Q. I have not actually found an end user that has reached out or Iíve been able to reach out to that is a heavy Q user or solely a Q user. And the reason I go to the Q when you start talking about mirrorless and glass and all these types of things is that the Q as a segment is such a great opportunity."

He goes on to say:
"So if you find any really heavy users of Q going on, Iíd love to talk to them."

Let's change that and give him some input about the Q!

An Interview with Pentax Executive Vice President Jim Malcolm - DigitalCameraInfo.com
Are this man professional? Pentax USA traded bad for worse....IMO
04-04-2013, 07:27 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Are this man professional? Pentax USA traded bad for worse....IMO
Well, I disagree. At least this guy doesn't publicly praise his Leica. Instead he talks about how you can use all your great Leica glass on a Ricoh camera with an adapter! Nice move on his part IMHO.
04-04-2013, 07:27 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Are this man professional? Pentax USA traded bad for worse....IMO
Why is he unprofessional in your eyes? This is how most big companies work today and most Exec VP never even speaks to customers this way, nor do they read message boards. I don't say that it is a good thing, i just state the sad fact.

04-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #35
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No real feedback between top-managers and users. No info about user's demands.
No real desire to know such info. Personally, this man doesn't even see that Pentaxians need FF camera.

Only a lot of declarations and dim talks...


It's his personal opinion...But....
I’m not going to beat you up on full frame, because I’m sure that horse has been beaten. In a way, I don’t really need full frame. I’m super happy with the product that I have. The weight of it, the weather sealing, just the overall size of the product. Maybe somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me
04-04-2013, 07:57 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Iím not going to beat you up on full frame, because Iím sure that horse has been beaten. In a way, I donít really need full frame. Iím super happy with the product that I have. The weight of it, the weather sealing, just the overall size of the product. Maybe somebody needs full frame, but itís not for me
No, it's not his own opinion, he is forwarding what the callers said. If I recall correctly it was Heie that basically said that quote so how is he wrong? If you want to complain, complain to the people he quoted but I don't think you have a case since that is just their honest opinions.

Schedule a call with him if you feel it's important for them to release a full frame but don't complain over him quoting your fellow Pentaxians.
04-04-2013, 08:02 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Well, I disagree. At least this guy doesn't publicly praise his Leica. Instead he talks about how you can use all your great Leica glass on a Ricoh camera with an adapter! Nice move on his part IMHO.
You guys are crazy to get so hung up on someone saying they like a Leica. Pentax does not compete with Leica. Get over it. (My personal opinion, of course.)
04-04-2013, 09:13 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
No, it's not his own opinion, he is forwarding what the callers said. If I recall correctly it was Heie that basically said that quote so how is he wrong? If you want to complain, complain to the people he quoted but I don't think you have a case since that is just their honest opinions.

Schedule a call with him if you feel it's important for them to release a full frame but don't complain over him quoting your fellow Pentaxians.
He never was here...Right? He doesn't even know where to get info and where need to contact with Pentaxians...Right?

It's his opinion thru the prism of user's opinion.


Last edited by ogl; 04-04-2013 at 11:05 PM.
04-04-2013, 09:50 PM   #39
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I think there a lot of people here that are over analyzing a few statements he made and taking some out of context. He seems genuinely interested in making the brand better and the outreach is certainly better than what I experienced with Canon.

Now if someone talks with him about the Q, let him know that there are only 5 lenses available right now. The 01 standard Prime is not currently available through normal channels.
04-04-2013, 09:58 PM   #40
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I have a number of comments here.

On the topic about FF. I have been reading the "Pentax wants to hear" thread since the first post. Early on, as I remember, there was a concerted effort on the part of the folks getting the calls, to not beat Mr. Malcolm about the head on the FF topic. There was a worry that all he would hear would be FF, and the folks writing did not want that to overshadow what they were trying to point out on other topics that they were speaking to. It appears that that sort of backfired on the folks who have been impatiently waiting for the full frame body. In this respect the somewhat "random" sample set skewed the results.Das Q - In my opinion there has been some really fine original engineering being done in this area. Crew1's adaption (re-purposing) of the Pentax's RedDot rifle scope to the Q is just simply elegant and brilliant. This is a case study of KISS at its best. Then there is Fanotech/Panoguy's with the Q/K adapter's foot. Yes, a niche third party aftermarket, but certainly looking to meet a need. Snowstorm's early adaption and work with adapters and telephoto opened up a lot of minds to the Q's potential - at least mine. Now I am going to get folks mad at me for forgetting or not listing their contributions / suggestions / posts / uses of the Q.

I do think that Pentax is missing out on quite a bit of information by (apparently) not following / researching topics on this forum. There is a good body of information / opinion that can be mined here.

To me the interview was excellent. Good information as to how the body of Pentax users are being viewed - right, wrong or indifferent.

04-04-2013, 10:43 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by interested_observer Quote
I have a number of comments here.

On the topic about FF. I have been reading the "Pentax wants to hear" thread since the first post. Early on, as I remember, there was a concerted effort on the part of the folks getting the calls, to not beat Mr. Malcolm about the head on the FF topic. There was a worry that all he would hear would be FF, and the folks writing did not want that to overshadow what they were trying to point out on other topics that they were speaking to. It appears that that sort of backfired on the folks who have been impatiently waiting for the full frame body. In this respect the somewhat "random" sample set skewed the results.Das Q - In my opinion there has been some really fine original engineering being done in this area. Crew1's adaption (re-purposing) of the Pentax's RedDot rifle scope to the Q is just simply elegant and brilliant. This is a case study of KISS at its best. Then there is Fanotech/Panoguy's with the Q/K adapter's foot. Yes, a niche third party aftermarket, but certainly looking to meet a need. Snowstorm's early adaption and work with adapters and telephoto opened up a lot of minds to the Q's potential - at least mine. Now I am going to get folks mad at me for forgetting or not listing their contributions / suggestions / posts / uses of the Q.



I have to point out that it was Barondla who told me about the Pentax Red Dot, he is the brilliant one.

I merely documented my setup to help others.
04-05-2013, 12:35 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
I have to point out that it was Barondla who told me about the Pentax Red Dot, he is the brilliant one.

I merely documented my setup to help others.
I apologize to Barondla for missing his brilliance! - See I knew I was going to blow it on something. The Red Dot is really a very neat and clever adaptation. I doubt that Pentax is aware of this novel use - the combination of the two products. Thinking out of the box, by creating a Ultimate Telephoto kit - the Pentax Q, the Pentax Red Dot Sight bundled with the Pentax Q/K adapter and foot. Advertising that combination - plus it really looks cool, essentially embodies the "think differently" tag line.....


Last edited by interested_observer; 04-05-2013 at 12:45 AM.
04-05-2013, 12:54 AM - 1 Like   #43
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My feedback from the interview and the above comments:

First and foremost, I thought the interview was very well done and I appreciated his candor, specifically when he said that "not to oversimplify it, but they basically put the digital camera business out to pasture and just kind of let it do its thing." That's exactly the quote he used during our conversation and I respect he did so in such a public interview. Too often execs/leadership say that "X Leadership before us did a great job and we hope to build off their success." A prepared, overused cliche that offers absolutely nothing of value. Instead he told it like it was and called out Hoya as a senior rep of Pentax Ricoh.

Secondly,
QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
I really want to believe that there is at least one marketing analyst on the Pentax staff whose job it is to monitor and mine attitudes and preferences on sites like Pentax Forums.
In my interview with Mr. Malcolm I did not get a chance to vocally mention it, however it was in the "Read-Ahead" I sent him to prepare for our conversation, and I am confident he read that. I do believe they need to have a forum member who data mines from here and gives a weekly, biweekly, or at the VERY least monthly update as to "what's up in the PF forumsphere." I do hope that that is happening and we just don't know about it.

From the interview on Digital Camera Info:
QuoteQuote:
When asked whether the Facebook outreach program would continue, Jim said that there is a certain saturation point where you inevitably begin to hear the same answers over and over again, so the current flavor of Q&A will probably be scaled back. The next phase, he says, is to "find people who have abandoned the brand" and figure out why that happened. He also hopes to talk to some shooters already loyal to other brands, to find out what could bring them into the Pentaxian fold.
I don't know about you guys, but this to me is an absolutely outstanding approach. I didn't think about it before, but he is correct - after so many calls, the "freshness" of the commentary and discussions will fade and it will be time to address a new population - those who left and target why they did so, and then eventually dedicated consumers and professionals to Canon/Nikon and what it would take for them to make the switch. I support this initiative (should it ever come to fruition) 100% and I commend Mr. Malcolm for not having tunnel vision in this manner.

QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
No, it's not his own opinion, he is forwarding what the callers said. If I recall correctly it was Heie that basically said that quote so how is he wrong? If you want to complain, complain to the people he quoted but I don't think you have a case since that is just their honest opinions.
It was very similar to what I said to him, but I also acknowledged that it was necessary for the perception of the brand, and when he mentioned that there was APS-C and then the 645D, I acknowledged that the gap between a $1000 system and a $15,000+ system was an incredibly large and unrealistic pill to ask consumers to swallow. For me personally, I am not in need of FF at the moment, however I recognize what the lack of it has done to the "professionalism" of Pentax. People who are looking for a DSLR are constantly dissuaded from getting a Pentax because of the lack of a FF upgrade path when in reality they will never buy a second lens or take their camera off full auto mode. This needs to stop.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I suggest a conference call with the dozen or so power Q users on the Forum (who are easily identified).
This is an excellent idea and I would extend it to there should be a monthly (three months? six months and make it a full day event?) conference call with 5-10ish (10 MAX) representatives that have demonstrated their passion, knowledge, professionalism, maturity, etc, and act as ambassadors on behalf of the entire PF community that can convey significant grievances in a lucid manner rather than just whining (which I did my very best to do during my interview). I would then extend that even further and say that during these conference calls, NDA's be signed and allowed the discussion of upcoming products that way we can offer user-base input on why x and y are great initiatives but z is a waste of R&D. Of course he would still have the final say, however it would, in my opinion, offer an incredible forum for the refinement of ideas and even the awareness of brand new ideas that weren't thought of by the Pentax R&D teams. I am more than confident that there are users here that are more versed on Pentax's products and limitations than many of the people that work for the company itself.

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Perhaps Pentax needs to hire someone like Heie or Adam who know their stuff, are enthusiastic about the equipment, and can convey that to others?
I appreciate the reference, Doc - thank you. And honestly if I were able to have phone/video conferences and have my voice heard, I would do it for free (although I wouldn't turn down a DA 560 as a very heartfelt thank you ). But more importantly, to further develop your point, I think this is an incredible failing of Pentax's and I am more than disheartened by it. Like I said above, there are people here -- everyday "Joe's" that just use the products -- that are more competent to discuss said products than people who are paid to market, use, evaluate, etc them. Offer them jobs, even if part-time. How many would jump at the offer of a $10,000 salary if they were told "we are sending you an official representative polo shirt to wear as well as x number of cameras and lenses, some tshirts, pens, banners and a table cloth with PENTAX all over them, and if you need tables and some chairs, we can send those too (or send us the receipt), and we want you to go to your local church, mall, zoo, adventure center, whatever, and let people play with your (our) camera gear. In the meantime, in between display events, think of this as a free rental and you can use the gear as if it were your own. You must do at a minimum of 10 events over the course of 6 months, at which point we will reevaluate your performance, outreach, and potential for further market saturation in your area, and decide whether to have all the lenses returned or offer you another 6 month cycle." Seriously, I know everyone here would be fighting each other to get one of those slots. Think of the outreach that would happen and on such a personal level. And in the grand scheme of things, lets say this was done to 10 Pentaxians across the US in major cities (New York, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, etc), for a minimal cost to the company it would yield exponentially huge rewards (in terms of customer outreach).

Just an idea that came up just now...

Anyway, those were my thoughts.

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 04-05-2013 at 01:00 AM. Reason: typo
04-05-2013, 04:19 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Heie Quote
My feedback from the interview and the above comments:
.........
I appreciate the reference, Doc - thank you. And honestly if I were able to have phone/video conferences and have my voice heard, I would do it for free (although I wouldn't turn down a DA 560 as a very heartfelt thank you ). But more importantly, to further develop your point, I think this is an incredible failing of Pentax's and I am more than disheartened by it. Like I said above, there are people here -- everyday "Joe's" that just use the products -- that are more competent to discuss said products than people who are paid to market, use, evaluate, etc them. Offer them jobs, even if part-time. How many would jump at the offer of a $10,000 salary if they were told "we are sending you an official representative polo shirt to wear as well as x number of cameras and lenses, some tshirts, pens, banners and a table cloth with PENTAX all over them, and if you need tables and some chairs, we can send those too (or send us the receipt), and we want you to go to your local church, mall, zoo, adventure center, whatever, and let people play with your (our) camera gear. In the meantime, in between display events, think of this as a free rental and you can use the gear as if it were your own. You must do at a minimum of 10 events over the course of 6 months, at which point we will reevaluate your performance, outreach, and potential for further market saturation in your area, and decide whether to have all the lenses returned or offer you another 6 month cycle." Seriously, I know everyone here would be fighting each other to get one of those slots. Think of the outreach that would happen and on such a personal level. And in the grand scheme of things, lets say this was done to 10 Pentaxians across the US in major cities (New York, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, etc), for a minimal cost to the company it would yield exponentially huge rewards (in terms of customer outreach).

Just an idea that came up just now...

Anyway, those were my thoughts.

-Heie
Once again you make an excellent suggestion. Pentax did something like this, on a smaller scale, in hiring Pentaxians for the sales running up to Christmas. There are a lot of camera clubs that would welcome such a visit.
04-05-2013, 05:43 AM   #45
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After reading the article, I am now more disenchanted with Pentax than I was before.

Using Facebook as your only attempt of outreach? Pfftt - I guess their goal is to market toward the masses of sheep.

Never found a Q user to talk to? Come on - if you don't know how to use the internet and do a simple Google search to find this forum, you would think there would be someone on the staff that could. That is really a cop-out.

And his quote:

The next phase, he says, is to "find people who have abandoned the brand" and figure out why that happened.

How is Facebook going to help you here? Does he think that people who have jumped ship are going to follow his Facebook page?

I agree if an official Pentax representative were to open themselves up to this forum it wouldn't be pretty - too many people would jump on them without doing anything constructive. But, as Doc refered to - right here in this forum is probably the most marketing feedback that could get right now, but they choose to ignore it? Nobody to talk to about the Q..?? Come on.

Will Pentax survive? I'm sure they will. But this kind of marketing attitude just pushes me further away. He says he looks for a turnaround in Pentax in 3-5 years.......that's a long time while the rest of the industry is moving at very fast pace.
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