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04-07-2013, 10:36 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
If that's the way you choose to interpret it. However, I don't see it that way.

" Maybe somebody needs full frame, but itís not for me."

"Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that weíve done internally and itís a little bit rewarding, and I guess thatís my big surprise."

In context, he is saying that it's rewarding that their internal research is consistant with Pentaxians not wanting/needing a full frame camera.
That's selective quoting from an article which was already selectively quoting Jim Malcolm. Let's improve it:
ďIím not going to beat you up on full frame, because Iím sure that horse has been beaten. In a way, I donít really need full frame. Iím super happy with the product that I have. The weight of it, the weather sealing, just the overall size of the product. Maybe somebody needs full frame, but itís not for me."
IMHO the main idea is that such Pentaxians are happily shooting with the current products, and less that they're not interested in a FF.
And by the way, most Pentaxians won't buy FF; just like most of Canikonians don't.

04-07-2013, 11:02 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's selective quoting from an article which was already selectively quoting Jim Malcolm. Let's improve it:
ďIím not going to beat you up on full frame, because Iím sure that horse has been beaten. In a way, I donít really need full frame. Iím super happy with the product that I have. The weight of it, the weather sealing, just the overall size of the product. Maybe somebody needs full frame, but itís not for me."
IMHO the main idea is that such Pentaxians are happily shooting with the current products, and less that they're not interested in a FF.
And by the way, most Pentaxians won't buy FF; just like most of Canikonians don't.
I don't thin I was being selective in my quoting. I took two consecutive sentences. OTOH, the entire quote doesn't change anything. The paragraph starts and concludes with references to FF and that it's not needed. The next paragraph stated that it matches their internal research. I think it;s pretty clear.

Again, you might see it differently. Perhaps, if many of us are taking things the wrong way, Mr Malcolm could always revise and extend his remarks to make the intent clear.
04-07-2013, 11:39 AM   #93
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You extracted (i.e. selected) only the last part of that text, right?
How do you know Jim was talking only about FF "not being needed"? Why not about Pentaxians liking actual Pentax products?
04-07-2013, 12:00 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You extracted (i.e. selected) only the last part of that text, right?
How do you know Jim was talking only about FF "not being needed"? Why not about Pentaxians liking actual Pentax products?
Ok, let me try again. The first paragraph summarizes as follows: Almost everyone that he talked to said no full frame is needed, we like what you're doing already.

The second paragraph summary is that the above agrees wit their internal research and that it was rewarding that it matched. He again go on to say that Pentaxians just want them to keep doing what they are doing. that Pentax should "start paying attention to—continue paying attention to—the camera the way it is."

I'm not sure how anyone can read that and find anything encouraging about the future of a full frame camera. Pentaxians don't want one, just keep doing what you are doing and Pentax states that that's the way they see it as well.

I'll concede that Mr. Malcolm is just an employee and Pentax Americas and doesn't have any direct influence on product development. However, the numbers and research that he feeds back to Japan can have an impact on the eventual release of a FF camera. Pentax Americas to Pentax Japan "No FF to be sold in this market."

Am I being overly pessimistic. Maybe. Has this interview given me any reason to be optimistic? No.

04-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #95
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I read it as they are perfectly in line with what their research told them. The people he talked to are and have been fine with what they had and have to offer right now but that says nothing about the future.
04-07-2013, 01:25 PM   #96
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areidjr, you can try as many times as you wish, I still won't ignore parts of what Jim Malcolm said, nor the full context
By the way, Jim still has to talk with people who jumped ship (to see why they left), and with Canikonians (what would make them jump to Pentax). He's not one that would hastily jump to conclusions...

There is another thing - if Pentax were to vastly overestimate the FF demand, that would be very bad, potentially fatal (at least they have Ricoh's backing now). They must plan for it according to the real demand, and if that's not enough they should act to create that demand (for example, by consolidating and increasing their market share in the APS-C arena).
Of course, it would be nice that those Pentaxians (some of us, actually - hello, Heie!) would say "by all means, bring that FF on already!" - but not if they would be lying, and would not buy it.
Complaining that Jim dares to talk about the feedback he received from us is ridiculous, and serves no good.

Last edited by Kunzite; 04-07-2013 at 01:31 PM.
04-07-2013, 01:32 PM - 1 Like   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
areidjr, you can try as many times as you wish, I still won't ignore parts of what Jim Malcolm said, nor the full context
By the way, Jim still has to talk with people who jumped ship (to see why they left), and with Canikonians (what would make them jump to Pentax). He's not one that would hastily jump to conclusions...

There is another thing - if Pentax were to vastly overestimate the FF demand, that would be very bad, potentially fatal (at least they have Ricoh's backing now). They must plan for it according to the real demand, and if that's not enough they should act to create that demand (for example, by consolidating and increasing their market share in the APS-C arena).
Complaining that Jim dares to talk about the feedback he received from us is ridiculous, and serves no good.
At this point, all we can do is agree to disagree.

I'm not sure where he plans to find those that have left the brand. Maybe he can just make noet of the Pentax users that are wanting a FF camera, wait a few months and then contact them.
04-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Complaining that Jim dares to talk about the feedback he received from us is ridiculous, and serves no good.
If you read my posts carefully, you'd know that I'm not complaining about someone sharing feedback they got.

04-07-2013, 09:38 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
I'm not sure where he plans to find those that have left the brand
If Adam could export the Member List as/of 12/31/2007 I'd venture a fair number of those people no longer own Pentax.
04-07-2013, 10:04 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by pearsaab Quote
my personal perspective is a pentax executive and all their familiy members should use all their products...not to mention everyone at their facility should be using them so they can have discussions within their company on what works and doesn't..how can you possibly sell a product and know nothing about it...at least take some time and research the internet to see what people say about your company and products..you don't even have to do it yourself..have internal experts that use and research what is being said about a specific product...i feel like i must be missing something because why would you not know everything there is about what you sell...maybe that is why i'm a nobody and he is in charge of pentax @#$%^&...ok my rant is done...
Totally agree, how can you be enthusiastic about a product you don't use!
Giving Pentax Qs to staff and then getting feedback from said staff makes for an easy feedback loop for product use.
You could even get a detailed questionnaire approach done.
I totally understand not having presence here, as mentioned previously the problem with dealing with anonymous discourse is people don't mind them selves and it just takes a few of the vocal minority to spoil that relationship.
Maybe he could have contacted a third party or randomly contacted an end user through warranty card or after sales feedback.
It does sound a little lazy and I find it hard to believe that he hasn't seen a Q in the street during his Travels that he couldn't say a quick hi and ask about the product.
04-07-2013, 10:20 PM - 1 Like   #101
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My first job was selling Butter - a well-known National Brand of ..... Butter. Salted and Unsalted. Butter.

Before I was allowed to sell the stuff I was taken to HQ and given an intensive course in how to ..... cook!! (With Butter).
04-07-2013, 11:22 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
If you read my posts carefully, you'd know that I'm not complaining about someone sharing feedback they got.
Yes, I know, you were complaining that his data is not statistically relevant, and how the answer it's so obvious there's no need for him to talk with us.
What you quoted was not an answer to you; if you read my posts carefully...

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If Adam could export the Member List as/of 12/31/2007 I'd venture a fair number of those people no longer own Pentax.
We can find some of them on Pentax-related (sub)forums, bragging about their new toys and how they changed their life for the better
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