Pentax Exec VP says he's never spoken to Q user!!

Transit · 04-06-2013, 05:20 PM - **1 Like**

How can this chap have any effect on what people want ?
Japanese company mainly selling to the Japanese market.
Cute colourful Q's for them.
What ever comes out next will be news to him as it is to us

I wonder what he's talking about walking past people drawing stuff on whiteboards who are out of touch with actual users.
Are they marketers drawing pictures of shops ?

**Fontan** · 04-06-2013, 07:01 PM - **4 Likes**

I really think that if Pentax wants to be successful, all they need to do is do everything that our forum members here tell them to do and then in no time the company will easy surpass Canon and Nikon and Sony and Olympus and Panasonic and Leica combined. Quite frankly, I don't know what they r waiting for. This place is so full of all kinds of experts that they might as well hire the entire site as the primary consultant in all aspects of operation. They are so stupid I cannot believe it. My God

**THoog** · 04-06-2013, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Transit

How can this chap have any effect on what people want ?
Japanese company mainly selling to the Japanese market.
Cute colourful Q's for them.
What ever comes out next will be news to him as it is to us

I wonder what he's talking about walking past people drawing stuff on whiteboards who are out of touch with actual users.
Are they marketers drawing pictures of shops ?

Hopefully, if Ricoh wants to actually compete in the US market, some of what he hears will filter back to Pentax Japan. (Sure, I'm an optimist.

)

Based on what Pentax US did for the past few years, I think the whiteboards looked something like this:

1) Pentax sends stuff to distributors
2) ????
3) PROFIT!!!

deadwolfbones · 04-06-2013, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by fontan

i really think that if pentax wants to be successful, all they need to do is do everything that our forum members here tell them to do and then in no time the company will easy surpass canon and nikon and sony and olympus and panasonic and leica combined. Quite frankly, i don't know what they r waiting for. This place is so full of all kinds of experts that they might as well hire the entire site as the primary consultant in all aspects of operation. They are so stupid i cannot believe it. My god

+1

:d :d :d

Class A · 04-07-2013, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

Give me a break. We specifically asked the guy what kind of feedback he had gotten, and he told us. That's all.

No, Pentax USA, give me a break.

If your summary was "That's all" were accurate then there would be little reason to be annoyed. But he didn't just say "From N participants I got X-times the opinion that they see no point in FF".

Instead he states that it is "rewarding" that "almost everybody" says "somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me.".

How many is "almost everybody"?
Just check out the original Facebook thread. Is ~13% posters asking for "FF" also "almost nobody"?
Does this ratio mean anything given the sample size of ~35?
No, of course not.

How many did he speak with?
Even if he did 20 interviews then this means nothing. Nothing at all.

How can he gain any satisfaction ("rewarding") out of a sample that is completely irrelevant?

And why the satisfaction?
What is so great about Pentax having missed the window of opportunity to be the first to offer an FF camera that doesn't come with artificial margins? There was a chance to win over some Canikions shooting APS-C without the funds to pay the old insane Canikon FF prices. This ship has sailed. Catch up time again. I'm sorry, but I find this sad, not "rewarding". Pentax can continue playing the APS-C only game for a while but not for much longer.

Finally, he concludes from all this (in other words from nothing) that Pentaxians are saying "Just keep doing what you’re doing." . This could not be further from the truth. According to him no one apparently ever asked for an improved SDM, an option to use screw drive when SDM fails, an uncrippled K-mount, smaller AF areas, more AF areas, competitive continuous AF, better movie control, and most of all affordable lenses. And almost nobody ever asked for a Pentax FF, right?

Many of these issues make Pentaxians leave the brand every day, but he needs to conduct further research to understand why. Given his current analysis, I don't have high hopes that this is going to lead anywhere.

N.B., I think Pentax still has the potential for a great future. But I don't understand how anyone thinks they can build that great future by throwing cold water on a significant proportion of their user base. Without being forced to.

Luckily, as others have pointed out, he is not really that important and the impact that Ricoh will have on Pentax is yet to come. There is a lot of reason to be hopeful about Pentax.

@deadwolfbones: Please read this post by a Pentax veteran and tell me that Jim Malcolm's phraseology did not cause damage.

Kunzite · 04-07-2013, 08:14 AM

Come on, he wasn't gathering statistically-relevant data - he was only talking with Pentaxians! It's amazing how on a Pentax forums this is transformed into something really bad; no matter what, you people are so quick in forming lynch mobs!
And FYI, "keep doing what you're doing" doesn't mean nothing should be improved. But the current products are actually very good, and Pentax should continue in this direction (while also adding higher-end products, I'd say).

Class A · 04-07-2013, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Come on, he wasn't gathering statistically-relevant data - he was only talking with Pentaxians!

I didn't say he was.

He said "the Pentaxians are saying" and the article title claims that he is giving "Pentax loyalists" a voice.

If he had said "the few random people I spoke to on the phone said..." it would become apparent how irrelevant that is. But instead, overall the impression is created that Pentaxians (in general) don't really want FF.

ogl · 04-07-2013, 08:46 AM

The problem of Japanese brands is Japanese keiretsu. No any real competition between photo brands in Japan. There is just imitation of competion...

The problem of FF is that Ricoh and Canon are in the same keiretsu. And there are very bad finance and economic circumstances in Japan now.
Will they risk? Hard to say. Nobody care about opinion of users. Maybe it's right to survive at the market...

cali92rs · 04-07-2013, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I didn't say he was.

He said "the Pentaxians are saying" and the article title claims that he is giving "Pentax loyalists" a voice.

If he had said "the few random people I spoke to on the phone said..." it would become apparent how irrelevant that is. But instead, overall the impression is created that Pentaxians (in general) don't really want FF.

It is real evident when he goes on to say that it matches their own research.

areidjr · 04-07-2013, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

It is real evident when he goes on to say that it matches their own research.

This is exactly what I was going to say. On it's own, the statement that the Pentaxians she spoke to don't want/need FF, but add to it that hes stated that it matches their internal research and that it was rewarding makes the case that at least Pentax PRAC is telling Japan that there is no need for FF i this market.

Kunzite · 04-07-2013, 09:42 AM

What was rewarding was that those Pentaxians don't think the sky is falling, and appreciates the actual Pentax products.

areidjr · 04-07-2013, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

What was rewarding was that those Pentaxians don't think the sky is falling, and appreciates the actual Pentax products.

If that's the way you choose to interpret it. However, I don't see it that way.

" Maybe somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me."

"Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that we’ve done internally and it’s a little bit rewarding, and I guess that’s my big surprise."

In context, he is saying that it's rewarding that their internal research is consistant with Pentaxians not wanting/needing a full frame camera.

ogl · 04-07-2013, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by areidjr

If that's the way you choose to interpret it. However, I don't see it that way.

" Maybe somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me."

"Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that we’ve done internally and it’s a little bit rewarding, and I guess that’s my big surprise."

In context, he is saying that it's rewarding that their internal research is consistant with Pentaxians not wanting/needing a full frame camera.

I think he just voices publicly the policy of company at this juncture

TomE · 04-07-2013, 10:26 AM

I don't want/need FF right now, I already have it, but I would really like it to have the Pentax Logo on it.

Tom

areidjr · 04-07-2013, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I think he just voices publicly the policy of company at this juncture

What policy? That Pentax does not see the need to introduce a FF camera and that's backed up by the feedback from users.

04-07-2013, 08:06 AM	#80
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by deadwolfbones Give me a break. We specifically asked the guy what kind of feedback he had gotten, and he told us. That's all. No, Pentax USA, give me a break. If your summary was "That's all" were accurate then there would be little reason to be annoyed. But he didn't just say "From N participants I got X-times the opinion that they see no point in FF". Instead he states that it is "rewarding" that "almost everybody" says "somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me.". How many is "almost everybody"? Just check out the original Facebook thread. Is ~13% posters asking for "FF" also "almost nobody"? Does this ratio mean anything given the sample size of ~35? No, of course not. How many did he speak with? Even if he did 20 interviews then this means nothing. Nothing at all. How can he gain any satisfaction ("rewarding") out of a sample that is completely irrelevant? And why the satisfaction? What is so great about Pentax having missed the window of opportunity to be the first to offer an FF camera that doesn't come with artificial margins? There was a chance to win over some Canikions shooting APS-C without the funds to pay the old insane Canikon FF prices. This ship has sailed. Catch up time again. I'm sorry, but I find this sad, not "rewarding". Pentax can continue playing the APS-C only game for a while but not for much longer. Finally, he concludes from all this (in other words from nothing) that Pentaxians are saying "Just keep doing what you’re doing." . This could not be further from the truth. According to him no one apparently ever asked for an improved SDM, an option to use screw drive when SDM fails, an uncrippled K-mount, smaller AF areas, more AF areas, competitive continuous AF, better movie control, and most of all affordable lenses. And almost nobody ever asked for a Pentax FF, right? Many of these issues make Pentaxians leave the brand every day, but he needs to conduct further research to understand why. Given his current analysis, I don't have high hopes that this is going to lead anywhere. N.B., I think Pentax still has the potential for a great future. But I don't understand how anyone thinks they can build that great future by throwing cold water on a significant proportion of their user base. Without being forced to. Luckily, as others have pointed out, he is not really that important and the impact that Ricoh will have on Pentax is yet to come. There is a lot of reason to be hopeful about Pentax. @deadwolfbones: Please read this post by a Pentax veteran and tell me that Jim Malcolm's phraseology did not cause damage. Last edited by Class A; 04-07-2013 at 08:30 AM.

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04-06-2013, 05:20 PM - 1 Like	#76
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	How can this chap have any effect on what people want ? Japanese company mainly selling to the Japanese market. Cute colourful Q's for them. What ever comes out next will be news to him as it is to us I wonder what he's talking about walking past people drawing stuff on whiteboards who are out of touch with actual users. Are they marketers drawing pictures of shops ?

04-06-2013, 07:01 PM - 4 Likes	#77
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	I really think that if Pentax wants to be successful, all they need to do is do everything that our forum members here tell them to do and then in no time the company will easy surpass Canon and Nikon and Sony and Olympus and Panasonic and Leica combined. Quite frankly, I don't know what they r waiting for. This place is so full of all kinds of experts that they might as well hire the entire site as the primary consultant in all aspects of operation. They are so stupid I cannot believe it. My God

04-06-2013, 08:12 PM	#78
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Transit How can this chap have any effect on what people want ? Japanese company mainly selling to the Japanese market. Cute colourful Q's for them. What ever comes out next will be news to him as it is to us I wonder what he's talking about walking past people drawing stuff on whiteboards who are out of touch with actual users. Are they marketers drawing pictures of shops ? Hopefully, if Ricoh wants to actually compete in the US market, some of what he hears will filter back to Pentax Japan. (Sure, I'm an optimist. ) Based on what Pentax US did for the past few years, I think the whiteboards looked something like this: 1) Pentax sends stuff to distributors 2) ???? 3) PROFIT!!!

04-06-2013, 08:47 PM	#79
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Originally posted by fontan i really think that if pentax wants to be successful, all they need to do is do everything that our forum members here tell them to do and then in no time the company will easy surpass canon and nikon and sony and olympus and panasonic and leica combined. Quite frankly, i don't know what they r waiting for. This place is so full of all kinds of experts that they might as well hire the entire site as the primary consultant in all aspects of operation. They are so stupid i cannot believe it. My god +1 :d :d :d

04-07-2013, 08:14 AM	#81
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Come on, he wasn't gathering statistically-relevant data - he was only talking with Pentaxians! It's amazing how on a Pentax forums this is transformed into something really bad; no matter what, you people are so quick in forming lynch mobs! And FYI, "keep doing what you're doing" doesn't mean nothing should be improved. But the current products are actually very good, and Pentax should continue in this direction (while also adding higher-end products, I'd say).

04-07-2013, 08:42 AM	#82
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Kunzite Come on, he wasn't gathering statistically-relevant data - he was only talking with Pentaxians! I didn't say he was. He said "the Pentaxians are saying" and the article title claims that he is giving "Pentax loyalists" a voice. If he had said "the few random people I spoke to on the phone said..." it would become apparent how irrelevant that is. But instead, overall the impression is created that Pentaxians (in general) don't really want FF.

04-07-2013, 08:46 AM	#83
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	The problem of Japanese brands is Japanese keiretsu. No any real competition between photo brands in Japan. There is just imitation of competion... The problem of FF is that Ricoh and Canon are in the same keiretsu. And there are very bad finance and economic circumstances in Japan now. Will they risk? Hard to say. Nobody care about opinion of users. Maybe it's right to survive at the market...

04-07-2013, 08:58 AM	#84
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by Class A I didn't say he was. He said "the Pentaxians are saying" and the article title claims that he is giving "Pentax loyalists" a voice. If he had said "the few random people I spoke to on the phone said..." it would become apparent how irrelevant that is. But instead, overall the impression is created that Pentaxians (in general) don't really want FF. It is real evident when he goes on to say that it matches their own research.

04-07-2013, 09:28 AM	#85
areidjr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 529	Originally posted by cali92rs It is real evident when he goes on to say that it matches their own research. This is exactly what I was going to say. On it's own, the statement that the Pentaxians she spoke to don't want/need FF, but add to it that hes stated that it matches their internal research and that it was rewarding makes the case that at least Pentax PRAC is telling Japan that there is no need for FF i this market.

04-07-2013, 09:42 AM	#86
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	What was rewarding was that those Pentaxians don't think the sky is falling, and appreciates the actual Pentax products.

04-07-2013, 09:48 AM	#87
areidjr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 529	Originally posted by Kunzite What was rewarding was that those Pentaxians don't think the sky is falling, and appreciates the actual Pentax products. If that's the way you choose to interpret it. However, I don't see it that way. " Maybe somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me." "Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that we’ve done internally and it’s a little bit rewarding, and I guess that’s my big surprise." In context, he is saying that it's rewarding that their internal research is consistant with Pentaxians not wanting/needing a full frame camera.

04-07-2013, 10:21 AM	#88
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by areidjr If that's the way you choose to interpret it. However, I don't see it that way. " Maybe somebody needs full frame, but it’s not for me." "Right, so this is kind of consistent with a lot of the research that we’ve done internally and it’s a little bit rewarding, and I guess that’s my big surprise." In context, he is saying that it's rewarding that their internal research is consistant with Pentaxians not wanting/needing a full frame camera. I think he just voices publicly the policy of company at this juncture

04-07-2013, 10:26 AM	#89
TomE Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 299	I don't want/need FF right now, I already have it, but I would really like it to have the Pentax Logo on it. Tom

04-07-2013, 10:32 AM	#90
areidjr Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 529	Originally posted by ogl I think he just voices publicly the policy of company at this juncture What policy? That Pentax does not see the need to introduce a FF camera and that's backed up by the feedback from users.