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04-19-2013, 06:21 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I am real surprised to hear you say all this. It is a 180 from the "be of good cheer" mentality
That was written in December, 2011. It is April, 2013. In the DPI article Jim Malcolm indirectly addressed the time lapse as an integration problem between the Ricoh and Pentax engineers and I've written about Ricoh's financial retrenchment, which continues. At the same time, we hear from time to time that "good things are coming" and the Ricoh GR looks pretty good. Hope, then disappointment. Rinse. Repeat.

I think part of my problem is the unrelenting negative posts here. Right off the bat the Ricoh was panned - and it by all other reviews except Thom Hogan (who inexplicably dismissed the dual dials as "random wheels, not marked") is reviewed favorably.

Aside from JC doing a digital radio interview - and PRAC actually getting the camera up on its website Day One - we hear nothing. Target doesn't stock the K30 or the WG-10 (developed just for them) as promised..

I fear the brand is dead as a serious camera company. There should be a declared Yes or No on Full Frame. I don't care which. A niche fixed lens compact - even a great one - isn't enough. Maybe watches will be a breakout success.

There should be a K300 below the K30 and a K3 above the K30 by now, and lenses and accessories. There should be third-party buy-in. There should be a massive and continuous series of home-run new products announced one after another, accompanied by large and continuous marketing,

Or there should be a declaration that they are a small counter-cultural company, embracing GenX and GenY and building for 20 years from now (which would actually be pretty smart). If that, then there should be continuous asymmetric marketing warfare such as the GR blog. GR fits this model. Q fits this model. K-01 might have fit this model if they had gotten more of it right. A MILC FF without even a mirror box (and new technology for IBIS) would fit this model but it couldn't be K-mount. I would nevertheless embrace really being different and use an adapter if they did it (how's that for a departure?).

Just tell us what you are or aspire to be and be very very good at what you tell us.

I don't think they have anything.


Last edited by monochrome; 04-19-2013 at 06:40 PM.
04-19-2013, 07:10 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They are increasing their share
Source please.
04-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That was written in December, 2011. It is April, 2013. In the DPI article Jim Malcolm indirectly addressed the time lapse as an integration problem between the Ricoh and Pentax engineers and I've written about Ricoh's financial retrenchment, which continues. At the same time, we hear from time to time that "good things are coming" and the Ricoh GR looks pretty good. Hope, then disappointment. Rinse. Repeat.

I think part of my problem is the unrelenting negative posts here. Right off the bat the Ricoh was panned - and it by all other reviews except Thom Hogan (who inexplicably dismissed the dual dials as "random wheels, not marked") is reviewed favorably.

Aside from JC doing a digital radio interview - and PRAC actually getting the camera up on its website Day One - we hear nothing. Target doesn't stock the K30 or the WG-10 (developed just for them) as promised..

I fear the brand is dead as a serious camera company. There should be a declared Yes or No on Full Frame. I don't care which. A niche fixed lens compact - even a great one - isn't enough. Maybe watches will be a breakout success.

There should be a K300 below the K30 and a K3 above the K30 by now, and lenses and accessories. There should be third-party buy-in. There should be a massive and continuous series of home-run new products announced one after another, accompanied by large and continuous marketing,

Or there should be a declaration that they are a small counter-cultural company, embracing GenX and GenY and building for 20 years from now (which would actually be pretty smart). If that, then there should be continuous asymmetric marketing warfare such as the GR blog. GR fits this model. Q fits this model. K-01 might have fit this model if they had gotten more of it right. A MILC FF without even a mirror box (and new technology for IBIS) would fit this model but it couldn't be K-mount. I would nevertheless embrace really being different and use an adapter if they did it (how's that for a departure?).

Just tell us what you are or aspire to be and be very very good at what you tell us.

I don't think they have anything.
+1 on all accounts.
I think Ricoh is an uber conservative company which is not going to win over lost customers because the competition is not going to sit still.
I still think Ricoh can turn this around though...just make some sort of waves. Why not buy some freakin airtime and stick the GR in some pretty celebrity's hands and have her smile to the camera?
04-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
+1 on all accounts.
I think Ricoh is an uber conservative company which is not going to win over lost customers because the competition is not going to sit still.
I still think Ricoh can turn this around though...just make some sort of waves. Why not buy some freakin airtime and stick the GR in some pretty celebrity's hands and have her smile to the camera?
Ricoh is not a conservative company. Ricoh became the largest copier manufacturer and the 279th largest company on Earth by aggressively acquiring competitors and exploiting their new assets. It sure feels like they got nuthin this time though.

And I think it was a mistake to suggest that Pentax would publicly answer a question, the Post would be updated - and then not another word. That doesn't help the mood.

04-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh is not a conservative company. Ricoh became the largest copier manufacturer and the 279th largest company on Earth by aggressively acquiring competitors and exploiting their new assets.
They really should have bought Nikon.
04-19-2013, 10:17 PM - 1 Like   #141
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I don't know if there's such thing as good censorship, but I think this thread should be deleted, or made available only to senior users. I'm a new wannabe Pentax user, and ever since this thread appeared I've put my purchases on an indefinite hold. I can only suppose I'm not the only one.

Jumping ship is human nature, but there's no reason in throwing new enthusiastic passengers over board...
04-19-2013, 11:02 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
It takes exceptional and inspired leadership to motivate employees to invest the emotional capital in the company that an entrepreneur has.
Agree. But here is my recommendation - fire the duds and replace them with those that don't have to be motivated and coerced. If there is rotting food in your fridge you don't leave it in there and hope things will just get better. Out with the old and in with the fresh.

This is an email I sent to Mr. Malcolm's secretary on 5 April to be forwarded to Mr. Malcolm. I have yet to receive a response.

QuoteQuote:
Ma'am,

Several ideas came to me that I would like to have passed by Mr. Malcolm for his review, as I believe they can be of significant benefit to the success and prosperity of Pentax.

Sir,

First, it is no secret that Pentax Forums is a goldmine of information when it comes to nearly every aspect of Pentax from lenses, cameras, etc. I also recognize that it is probably very daunting for anyone that is not well-versed in the forum to actively penetrate it to effectively collect any information of significant worth. The thing that I would like for you to consider is the hosting of a conference of sorts (phone/skype/etc) with select members of the PF community, a maximum of 10 personnel (I think 5 would be far more manageable, however 10 should be the limit). The intent behind this conference is to take the phone interviews you conducted (are still conducting?) over the past several months to the next step - honing and refining the audience to not just anyone, but well-versed, articulate, and dedicated Pentaxians. I read your recent interview that was posted to DigitalCameraInfo.com where you stated "there is a certain saturation point where you inevitably begin to hear the same answers over and over again," and I could not agree more. And this is where this select group would come in: to put it frankly, there are members of the PF community that can most likely best many of your senior representatives when it comes to the breadth and detail of awareness of Pentax's offerings, limitations, competition, etc. Not to mention it would offer fresh perspectives, which I am confident you witnessed during the phone interviews. I would also recommend, if you would be so willing, to take it a step forward, and establish this group of "PF Ambassadors" with the intent being the "bouncing off" of ideas of considered products/projects and the solicitation of ideas from us. I would be willing to personally oversee and command and control the "Pentax Forums Task Force," and I would ensure the other members I chose (along with PF admin Adam's assistance) were the most credible and competent and well established members on the forum. Of course and without any questioning, an NDA of unlimited length and scope would be signed, guaranteeing that anything and everything that is discussed within that meeting is kept as confidential until Pentax's official press releases. All of this would be done by each member of the task force willingly and without request for any monetary or material compensation.

Secondly, I would like to express my frustration at the unwillingness (or just unawareness) to capitalize on the resources at your disposal located at PF. Like I said above, there are "average Joe's" among us that are incredibly competent with the passion to match. Offer them jobs, even if part-time. How many would jump at the offer of a $10,000 salary if they were told "we are sending you an official representative polo shirt to wear as well as x number of cameras and lenses, some tshirts, pens, banners and a table cloth with PENTAX all over them, and if you need tables and some chairs, we can send those too (or send us the receipt), and we want you to go to your local church, mall, zoo, adventure center, Walmart, whatever, and let people play with your (our) camera gear. In the meantime, in between display events, think of this as a free rental and you can use the gear as if it were your own. You must do at a minimum of 10 events over the course of 6 months, at which point we will reevaluate your performance, outreach, and potential for further market saturation/penetration in your area, and decide whether to have all the cameras/lenses returned or offer you another 6 month cycle." I can guarantee that forum members would be killing each other to be awarded one of those slots. Think of the outreach that would happen and on such a personal level. And in the grand scheme of things, lets say this was done to 10 Pentaxians across the US in major cities (New York, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, etc), for a minimal cost to the company (2 salaries at the very most) it would yield exponentially huge rewards (in terms of market penetration). And none of the costs would ever have to go to travel, hotel fees, market research of those areas - it's all done for you. Those locals live there, know the area, and again, will be far more passionate than some representative you higher for a few hundred dollars for the day to hand out pens. But most of all, they will be incredibly knowledgeable.

Again, these were two ideas that I had that I would greatly appreciate your consideration as I believe they would be of tremendous benefit to Pentax, and considering the second one, for far less than you can currently pay to mobilize the same initiative using your own personnel (whom unfortunately have consistently been reported to not be intelligible regarding Pentax products at all, an issue I understand is not because of you).

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Very Respectfully,
Alexander Jansen
I shoot Pentax because it is in my opinion the best brand for the outdoorsman/traveler as well as the budding photographer that doesn't know what they are being ripped off from - Nikon and Canon both purposefully leave out some critical features to not cannibalize their own 7-ish tiers of cameras, hoping each person upgrades to a new camera. Pentax's entry level cameras were always shoulders and above more advanced than the competition, and users don't realize it until they are entrenched in the system, or if they ever even realize it. If Pentax died tomorrow - yes I would be heartbroken, especially considering the sheer amount of money I've invested in the system. But I would still continuing shooting with my current gear and make it last, because even for the next several years - Canikon won't be able to compete with what I have today - a compact, fully weather sealed system that delivers professional-grade image quality.

But we can definitely do better and that was the purpose of that email.

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 04-19-2013 at 11:26 PM. Reason: typo
04-19-2013, 11:03 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I am real surprised to hear you say all this. It is a 180 from the "be of good cheer" mentality
I was thinking the same thing, as Monochrome has been one of the most ardent supporters here. I stepped away from this forum when the negativity around the K-01 peaked. I'm back because there's a lot of good information here, and I try to share what I've learned. But I no longer play Monday Morning Product Manager. I shoot Pentax because it continues to meet my needs. I also shoot Panasonic and Nikon and have no qualms about shooting other brands as they meet my needs. If Pentax went belly up tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear. I'd continue to use the cameras I have and plan an orderly transition. Will I lose some money? Perhaps, but they're tools and I'll get all the use I can out of them.

There are many more things in life worth worrying about than camera brands.

04-20-2013, 02:48 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That was written in December, 2011. It is April, 2013. In the DPI article Jim Malcolm indirectly addressed the time lapse as an integration problem between the Ricoh and Pentax engineers and I've written about Ricoh's financial retrenchment, which continues. At the same time, we hear from time to time that "good things are coming" and the Ricoh GR looks pretty good. Hope, then disappointment. Rinse. Repeat.

I think part of my problem is the unrelenting negative posts here. Right off the bat the Ricoh was panned - and it by all other reviews except Thom Hogan (who inexplicably dismissed the dual dials as "random wheels, not marked") is reviewed favorably.

Aside from JC doing a digital radio interview - and PRAC actually getting the camera up on its website Day One - we hear nothing. Target doesn't stock the K30 or the WG-10 (developed just for them) as promised..

I fear the brand is dead as a serious camera company. There should be a declared Yes or No on Full Frame. I don't care which. A niche fixed lens compact - even a great one - isn't enough. Maybe watches will be a breakout success.

There should be a K300 below the K30 and a K3 above the K30 by now, and lenses and accessories. There should be third-party buy-in. There should be a massive and continuous series of home-run new products announced one after another, accompanied by large and continuous marketing,

Or there should be a declaration that they are a small counter-cultural company, embracing GenX and GenY and building for 20 years from now (which would actually be pretty smart). If that, then there should be continuous asymmetric marketing warfare such as the GR blog. GR fits this model. Q fits this model. K-01 might have fit this model if they had gotten more of it right. A MILC FF without even a mirror box (and new technology for IBIS) would fit this model but it couldn't be K-mount. I would nevertheless embrace really being different and use an adapter if they did it (how's that for a departure?).

Just tell us what you are or aspire to be and be very very good at what you tell us.

I don't think they have anything.
It's a bit too early to lose patience, IMO; weren't you the one explaining (from your own experience) about the difficulties generated by M&A?
We're one year and a half from the moment Pentax Ricoh started to exist - only one year and a half. That's a long time for what's left of our patience reserves, yet so small for those who have to make the actual products. Let's be patient for a little while, or move on if we can't; it's not like we can rush things.

Indeed, the "the unrelenting negative posts" are a big issue; and I'm afraid there's nothing Pentax can do to make those happy. A new product launch is a bad thing, around here; a high ranking official talking to their customers, likewise. Some section are no different than a certain blog.

Expecting Pentax to say something clear on the FF, ahead of time, it's unrealistic. Nikon didn't, Pentax won't (actually, Pentax said much more on the subject than Nikon did back then). I also doubt they can possibly afford "a massive and continuous series of home-run new products announced one after another, accompanied by large and continuous marketing". Such a strategy could easily backfire, if they won't meet the large target sales it implies; you know this very well.

By the way, they're doing marketing - in Japan, at least.
QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
My Questions Remains Simple - What happened to the predicted "Announcement" of the new cameras this month? Nothing as of yet, really wish they'd say something, as my K-5 is seeming rather ancient relative to the Toshiba sensor cameras.
What a surprise, a made-up rumor proved to be false! Let's be disappointed with Pentax!
By the way, what are you appreciating the most about the Toshiba sensor, the banding?
QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
Probably. I suppose they also forgot to tell them that they're competitive in some areas, and shouldn't just release watches?
Ignoring the real product and talk as if only the marketing items were released. Great.
04-20-2013, 03:01 AM - 3 Likes   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I think part of my problem is the unrelenting negative posts here. Right off the bat the Ricoh was panned - and it by all other reviews except Thom Hogan (who inexplicably dismissed the dual dials as "random wheels, not marked") is reviewed favorably.
Monochrome, you spend too much time reading PF posts. World is still turning around, and there are more wonderful things in it which our philosophy — limited by the scope of the local PF stupidity and endless overanalysing — cannot comprehend.

We here are overanalysing, overindulging in matters we, frankly, have no damn clue about. Just a week ago people couldn't even dream about the look and the taste of the GR. And now, that camera is already accepted everywhere as the next big thing — not by us PF citizens, who are stuck in existential loop — but by people who live in the big, round world, and are passionate about photography.

We here know only the problems, we know them and talk about them to an n-th degree. We'd love to sweep the Pentax land that it looks spotless, and we believe that we — the self-proclaimed defenders of the crown — know the solutions.

But we are looking at the Pentax photo universe from inside the egg. We know nothing in true detail, we lack a helluva lots of perspectives and insights that are abundant inside Ricoh and Pentax.

In all honesty, we all deserve a big break! Lets us shut up for the next 6 months, and actually observe what happens by then. And then, sometime in late October, summarise what happened, see our perspective shift from today, until then. Because if we spend overanalysing every day in between, we won't see even the most obvious things people outside the PF will see. And they will see it more clearly because they are impartial, and don't get lost in irrelevant details.

Last edited by Uluru; 04-20-2013 at 03:19 AM.
04-20-2013, 03:44 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Monochrome, you spend too much time reading PF posts. World is still turning around, and there are more wonderful things in it which our philosophy — limited by the scope of the local PF stupidity and endless overanalysing — cannot comprehend.

We here are overanalysing, overindulging in matters we, frankly, have no damn clue about. Just a week ago people couldn't even dream about the look and the taste of the GR. And now, that camera is already accepted everywhere as the next big thing — not by us PF citizens, who are stuck in existential loop — but by people who live in the big, round world, and are passionate about photography.

We here know only the problems, we know them and talk about them to an n-th degree. We'd love to sweep the Pentax land that it looks spotless, and we believe that we — the self-proclaimed defenders of the crown — know the solutions.

But we are looking at the Pentax photo universe from inside the egg. We know nothing in true detail, we lack a helluva lots of perspectives and insights that are abundant inside Ricoh and Pentax.

In all honesty, we all deserve a big break! Lets us shut up for the next 6 months, and actually observe what happens by then. And then, sometime in late October, summarise what happened, see our perspective shift from today, until then. Because if we spend overanalysing every day in between, we won't see even the most obvious things people outside the PF will see. And they will see it more clearly because they are impartial, and don't get lost in irrelevant details.
Yep, it is too early. Not only because of time (18 months) but because we did not yet see a Pentax Ricoh product.
K30 was a Pentax Hoya project slightly amended by Ricoh (yep, a good Hoya product) and Ricoh GR (excellent product IMO) is a Ricoh product amended by Pentax (TAV and built-in effects).

Let's see some Pentax Ricoh products. Then we'll know...
04-20-2013, 03:54 AM   #147
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I've pondered that, but it assumes Mitsubishi would sell.
04-20-2013, 04:14 AM - 1 Like   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
My Questions Remains Simple - What happened to the predicted "Announcement" of the new cameras this month? Nothing as of yet, really wish they'd say something, as my K-5 is seeming rather ancient relative to the Toshiba sensor cameras.
Actually there was an announcement by Pentax Ricoh this month, on the 17th as predicted, only it concerned a compact camera (Ricoh GR) and, in addition, the limited edition of two watches, and not a DSLR.

Remember, I told people here not to expect anything high-endish (and I wasn't the only one).
04-20-2013, 04:24 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep, it is too early. Not only because of time (18 months) but because we did not yet see a Pentax Ricoh product.
K30 was a Pentax Hoya project slightly amended by Ricoh (yep, a good Hoya product) and Ricoh GR (excellent product IMO) is a Ricoh product amended by Pentax (TAV and built-in effects).

Let's see some Pentax Ricoh products. Then we'll know...
+1

My interpretation of the lack of new products is that some serious tech changes needed to be made (AF, flash etc.) and/or they need to have a more full line of products ready at the same time for launch (new design concept, FF, MILC etc.).
04-20-2013, 04:44 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
+1

My interpretation of the lack of new products is that some serious tech changes needed to be made (AF, flash etc.) and/or they need to have a more full line of products ready at the same time for launch (new design concept, FF, MILC etc.).
If those are true, then why have your Exec VP say that there is little interest, etc. Again, I'm not a FF fanatic and started this thread because there are doom and gloom predictions, we're loosing established members at an alarming rate, and we continue to get no meaningful answers.
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