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05-02-2013, 06:59 AM - 2 Likes   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
You're inferring quite a lot about what goes on in Japan just from price hikes in the US... Pentax lens prices here in Norway seems to have been stable or in some cases dropped slightly over the last 1-2 years.
True.

However, I tend to look at the situation from a "macro" perspective.
- Where is the new flash already? It was shown months ago, yet we can't buy it.
- Ned's Limited Case is on sale now, but it was never *announced*.
- The GXR has quietly been discontinued.
- The MX1 is a warmed over version of another camera.
- The Fisheye/Pano camera/lens went from being a Pentax to a Ricoh.
- The Tamron rebadged super zoom.
- The Pentax Facebook page keeps the Ricoh GR in prominence.
- The recent lens price hikes in the US.
- The lack of being able to buy the K-Q adapter foot through regular channels.

There are many more little "niggles" that keep happening that show me that Ricoh is having a tough time integrating Pentax. Hoya may have hated the Pentax camera division, and starved/shut it down as much as they could, but we managed to get the K5/K-01/Q and K30.

We are getting NOTHING from Ricoh this far into the game. Ricoh either wants to do things too drastic, or the *real* Pentaxians are being recalcitrant n Japan.

As a Pentaxian we are bred to be recalcitrant given the Canikony world.
It's what made Soichiro Honda who he was, and who we are as Pentaxians.

It seems that the Ricoh folks with their money to keep going in a weird backwater (GXR) weren't even trying. I now have a vision of what a Ricoh camera enthusiast is in comparison to a Pentaxian, and they are not even close.

Ricoh is about compacts and some industrial cameras. They gave up on DSLRs a LONG time ago. The Ricoh brain trust appears to LOVE the news of the premature death of the DSLR and they are drinking THAT cool aid. Therefore, like the Hoya folks, they are starving Pentax of what Pentax needs to move forward with what we want.

We want cameras like the K30 and K5. We want improvements in those areas. We want lenses. We'd love a 645D, but most of us can't afford that. We want something higher spec between the K5 and 645D in addition to logical updates.

Its-not-that-hard-to-improve-on-what-we-have-already!!!!!

Look at what we have had to deal with in the absence of new DSLRs and you see tons of wasted opportunities.

All this points to a macro conflict between Ricoh and Pentax for the soul of a Pentaxian.

05-02-2013, 07:03 AM - 1 Like   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
License fees? You really think Pentax gets a license fee for the K-mount? The only thing they might get a license fee for is SDM compatibility. All of the third party lens makers have Canon EF lenses, and Canon has never licensed the EF mount...well maybe to Kodak for the DCS.
Yep they do except if they go the reverse engineering route (as Sigma is rumoured to, unconfirmed).
Zeiss used KA mount which is in public domain AFAIK.
There's also a reason why Samyang launched a Nikon AE version later, it got free for them (and others).
Samyang Canon mount lenses have no aperture link, wonder why ?
05-02-2013, 07:07 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep they do except if they go the reverse engineering route (as Sigma is rumoured to, unconfirmed).
Zeiss used KA mount which is in public domain AFAIK.
There's also a reason why Samyang launched a Nikon AE version later, it got free for them (and others).
Samyang Canon mount lenses have no aperture link, wonder why ?
Good Points and Knowledge. Thanks for posting
05-02-2013, 07:16 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Good point. The GR is so close in price to the DA15 and DA21 that I'm wondering if the GR is a better buy than one of those lenses (which are on my wish list)
Yes, most definitely is a better buy!
You have that GR always in hand ready to go, then you have your DSLR with a long zoom around your neck, and you have 99% of your bases covered

05-02-2013, 07:21 AM   #140
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Honestly, if Pentax wanted a big bump in price, they should have done something to earn that. Release an updated version of the FA limiteds like the DFA 100mm WR macro with quick shift and weather sealing. And stick a different hood on the FA 31 (I know its price didn't go up, but it is high enough as it is).

I have been trying to figure out Ricoh's strategy and my best guess is that they figure that they will keep camera body prices low (I really think they have been more decent, even on release than Hoya's pricing -- the K5 IIs under Hoya would have gone for 1600 for the first month of sales) and then stick it to photographers with the lenses. The problem is the folks who will buy upper end lenses can see what is on the other side of the fence and release that Pentax's pricing is pretty crazy high compared to Canon/Nikon. I'm not going anywhere, but I certainly won't look at new lenses with this sort of pricing (unless they come out with a full frame body)...
05-02-2013, 07:38 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
And since the prices in the rest of the world fund schools, healthcare, etc., and our prices do not, we're getting screwed.
No, the world-wide price equivalences are for the prices without tax.

See
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/223525-insane-...ml#post2371179
05-02-2013, 07:42 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The GR is so close in price to the DA15 and DA21 that I'm wondering if the GR is a better buy than one of those lenses (which are on my wish list)
Bodies are viable for two, three years.
Lenses are viable for two, three decades.
Your money, your choice!
05-02-2013, 07:53 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Bodies are viable for two, three years.
Lenses are viable for two, three decades.
Your money, your choice!
Good point (except that 2-3 years is too radical, I didn't replace my K10D bought in December 2007 with a K-5 until June 2012...) - but the nagging question for many Pentaxians these days is also: How much use will there be for APS-C-only K-mount lenses in a few years?

05-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
My point is that under MAP retailers have to abide by the minimum but they are under no obligation to treat it as a maximum if they want to hold out for higher prices in future. This would be especially true if they had been briefed there were not going to be direct replacements for them.

Another thing to note is that most of the new products released since Ricoh took over have been very competitively priced. I'm thinking about the K30, K-5 II, Q10, GR. If products continue to be priced well from the start, the MAP doesn't look so awful in the long run. I hope Pentax prices their upcoming lenses aggressively, but the 18-270 was not a good sign.

Please. Of course they can charge more. No sane retailer is going to raise prices on items that are not selling at the price they have them for already. Reasonable, perhaps on camera bodies. The problem is that a camera is only useful insofar as it has lenses and their lens pricing has been abusive - period.
05-02-2013, 08:10 AM - 1 Like   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
And since the prices in the rest of the world fund schools, healthcare, etc., and our prices do not, we're getting screwed.
I really do not know what this point is SO hard for non-US Pentaxians to comprehend. Prices in other countries include huge taxes that are for your social services. Our prices DO NOT include such taxes - we pay those too but not at the cash register when we buy products. So, when our stuff is the same price as yours is with VAT included we are getting screwed PERIOD.
05-02-2013, 08:13 AM - 1 Like   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Ricoh is about compacts and some industrial cameras. They gave up on DSLRs a LONG time ago. The Ricoh brain trust appears to LOVE the news of the premature death of the DSLR and they are drinking THAT cool aid. Therefore, like the Hoya folks, they are starving Pentax of what Pentax needs to move forward with what we want.
I don't know if I agree with all you are saying...but I would entertain the above thought.
The only communication we are getting from Ricoh is that they will only release a FF if it is "distinctive"...a FF DSLR is not distinctive, a mirrorless FF would be.
But, the whole point is all we can do is speculate until products are actually released. Tick-tock-Tick-tock
05-02-2013, 08:21 AM   #147
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I can't complain yet- Pentax Australia prices still look broadly fine (no change yet). And now for some lenses they are significantly cheaper than the US- that probably hasn't happened many times in history.

Has there been much history of US prices being reflected elsewhere, or are they fairly independent to the rest of the world? I'm guessing the latter, since European prices have been so much higher for so long.
05-02-2013, 08:23 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Good point (except that 2-3 years is too radical, I didn't replace my K10D bought in December 2007 with a K-5 until June 2012...) - but the nagging question for many Pentaxians these days is also: How much use will there be for APS-C-only K-mount lenses in a few years?
This is my major concern, but it applies to almost all digital cameras. The pace of change in the market is so fast it's difficult to commit to lenses at this price for what is essentially a hobby.
05-02-2013, 09:08 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
a FF DSLR is not distinctive
Oh, really? There's absolutely nothing Pentax can do to make a distinctive DSLR?
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
a mirrorless FF would be.
What if Sony would bring theirs first? (well, it's already out, in the form of a video camera)
05-02-2013, 09:33 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Oh, really? There's absolutely nothing Pentax can do to make a distinctive DSLR?
What if Sony would bring theirs first? (well, it's already out, in the form of a video camera)
Yes, i forgot about colors
You can play what if all day...it is all mental masterbation until they actually release something.
So far it has been Hoya product updates and the GR. I love the GR concept, but I don't see how that furthers the DSLR line.
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