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05-27-2013, 07:44 PM   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I was trying to say:

We were comparing Olympus vs Pentax, so I didn't see a need to bring in a FF discussion and muddy the waters even further.
Let's say this — while Pentax has played strongly to honour its tradition and lenses, Olympus ditched it all in the bin, and almost all its recent 4/3 efforts as well (not m4/3).
In everything Oly had "done" so far, I was only moderately impressed by the recent E-P5. But even then, Pentax's Q had many things better done 2 years ago.

The philosophy of two companies is diametrically opposite and I wouldn't dare to invest a penny into Oly's system because of their irritating change of mind. Oly's m4/3 lens lineup cannot compare to Pentax's, even with Panny's lenses added in.

To describe it more graphically:
Pentax has an inside-out approach, in which some incredible tech and insight is developed to work with everything existing and the system grows and evolves.
Oly takes an outwards-in approach, and in that approach they destroy everything they've done before.


Last edited by Uluru; 05-27-2013 at 07:52 PM.
05-27-2013, 08:02 PM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
Good to know. Now I only have to drive 2 1/2 hours to try one out. Is the pricing competitive to adorama and B&H?

I know when I was at Midwest Photo in Columbus they laughed at me for being a Pentax shooter. I defended my decision and I love my cameras and lenses, but I just wish Pentax would do something to get their name back out there in the US.
They are now listing Tamron lenses for Pentax on their website, not in stock but it's a start. I recently went one of their events and one of their people was interested in my K-30 and how I liked it, not "looking down at it" at all. I think next time I go in I may have to take it in and start shooting. Time to start posting a few more Pentax shots on their facebook page.
05-28-2013, 05:16 AM   #393
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
You think so?

The fastest lens they sell is 1.8, right? On M-4/3 that's not very fast at all...

I certainly wouldn't trade Pentax lenses for Olympus lenses, not a chance.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Let's say this while Pentax has played strongly to honour its tradition and lenses, Olympus ditched it all in the bin, and almost all its recent 4/3 efforts as well (not m4/3).
In everything Oly had "done" so far, I was only moderately impressed by the recent E-P5. But even then, Pentax's Q had many things better done 2 years ago.

The philosophy of two companies is diametrically opposite and I wouldn't dare to invest a penny into Oly's system because of their irritating change of mind. Oly's m4/3 lens lineup cannot compare to Pentax's, even with Panny's lenses added in.

To describe it more graphically:
Pentax has an inside-out approach, in which some incredible tech and insight is developed to work with everything existing and the system grows and evolves.
Oly takes an outwards-in approach, and in that approach they destroy everything they've done before.
Technically, Olympus has not ditched their 43 DSLR system. They've only issued a couple of new bodies and still manufacture their entire lens line-up. I doubt it sells well, but I also suspect the manufacturing costs of a DSLR are pretty slim because it is mostly sunk cost technology.

I was comparing the entire Olympus system to Pentax because at least Olympus has multiple products at multiple price points. There's actually too much choice (which is a major reason why Olympus bleeds red ink), but they offer multiple bodies, a better, newer flash system, 2 macro flash systems, underwater housings,
and so no.

With Olympus there is a complete system. A lot is probably red ink overlead (do they really need that many UW housings?), but with Pentax the 2 body price point system, a tepid mirrorless in the K-01, and a lens line-up that advertises its macros and a 3 generation old fast 50 as FF but no other lens, is all over the map. There's a WR 55mm and 100mm macro....but no wide angle weather resistant lens? Pentax's lens categories are...embarrassing:

1) FA
2) D FA
3) DA* (whch may or may not be FA)
4) DA
5) DA-L
6) DA XS

The K-30 does not get sold officially with a WR lens kit...because the K-5 has that, but those lenses are really sub-par for a K-5 body. The 50-200 is made WR but is that really popular? The prime candidate is the 55-300mm but wait...that might impede sales of the 4x more expensive and 2x heavier 60-250! Is a 560mm really necessary in the competitive market or was this some executive's idea of looking for lost golf balls. Can you get a K-5 in a super kit with the 16-50 + either the 50-135 or 60-250? No. That would make sense. Then the K-30 could get a WR treatment all the way. The whole WR K-30 body with a DA-L lens is...absurd.

I suspect that Pentax had a 3rd body to replace the K-x but nixed it when price pressures started pushing the K-30 and now K-5 way down the price list.

The lack of logical product matching and bundling despite most of the pieces being there is entirely Pentax's fault and is a curb to market appeal. Id on't really see that with Olympus or other brands so much (well....Sony a bit).
05-28-2013, 05:32 AM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
....

The K-30 does not get sold officially with a WR lens kit...because the K-5 has that, but those lenses are really sub-par for a K-5 body. The 50-200 is made WR but is that really popular? The prime candidate is the 55-300mm but wait...that might impede sales of the 4x more expensive and 2x heavier 60-250! Is a 560mm really necessary in the competitive market or was this some executive's idea of looking for lost golf balls. Can you get a K-5 in a super kit with the 16-50 + either the 50-135 or 60-250? No. That would make sense. Then the K-30 could get a WR treatment all the way. The whole WR K-30 body with a DA-L lens is...absurd

.....
Lot's of good points that I cut out for readability but it should be noted that the K-30 kit was switched to the 18-55 WR lens some time ago (maybe after they cleared out excess non-WR lenses?). It's also been available with the 18-135 WR in a kit from the start.

05-28-2013, 05:49 AM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Lot's of good points that I cut out for readability but it should be noted that the K-30 kit was switched to the 18-55 WR lens some time ago (maybe after they cleared out excess non-WR lenses?). It's also been available with the 18-135 WR in a kit from the start.
The K-5 or K-30 + 18-135 makes sense.

You're right, they now offer the K-30 with a WR option. Took forever to get there.

The DA-L lenses speak to the concept that the K-30 was NOT meant to occupy that market space, but there was a 3rd body in the pipeline at a lower price point.

Pentax really needs 3 DSLR bodies.
05-28-2013, 06:32 AM   #396
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Pentax really needs 3 DSLR bodies.
Do you mean 4 DSLR Bodies? Unless you dont think they need a full frame. Which they do.

Otherwise I agree.
05-28-2013, 09:45 AM   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Let's say this — while Pentax has played strongly to honour its tradition and lenses, Olympus ditched it all in the bin, and almost all its recent 4/3 efforts as well (not m4/3).
This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Olympus, at least in its 4/3rd DSLR system, may offer a better "system" camera than Pentax; but it hasn't done Olympus much good. Olympus' camera division hasn't turned a profit since 2006, and in recent years they've sustained huge losses. Pentax has made a number of boneheaded moves over the years and has struggled to keep up with its competitors in flash and AF; but they haven't sustained the huge losses of Olympus and Sony. Why? Because Pentax has remained loyal to its core customers; they haven't just thrown them over to pursue the latest over-hyped trend.

The fact that Olympus 4/3rds may provide a better system than Pentax is pretty much irrelevant. Everyone seems to believe that the 4/3rds system has no future; and who's going to invest in a system with no future? The attempts by Olympus and Sony to create systems that can compete with Canon and Nikon hasn't done those companies a bit of good: it has only contributed to their huge losses.
05-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #398
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I would argue that Olympus bleeds ink because they have a "maybe the NEXT model..." syndrome and jam way too many me-too, same-same products in the pipeline.

Pentax, OTOH, goes all rugged, then all rainbow, then both, has a dysfunctional lens organization and consistency, and misses price points save for new old stock. The pairings of some of the lenses is ridiculous, and having 3 versions of a kit lens is beyond silly.

Canikon thrive because they are conservative with a product that is, by nature, conservative. There is room for mirrorless, but not necessarily at the compete expense of DSLR. Pentax at least stuck by the k-mount, OVF, and Ricoh has a great lineage. But both hit way too many foul balls (Q is a triple play, GXR is a force out at 2nd base).

05-28-2013, 07:29 PM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I would argue that Olympus bleeds ink because they have a "maybe the NEXT model..." syndrome and jam way too many me-too, same-same products in the pipeline.

Pentax, OTOH, goes all rugged, then all rainbow, then both, has a dysfunctional lens organization and consistency, and misses price points save for new old stock. The pairings of some of the lenses is ridiculous, and having 3 versions of a kit lens is beyond silly.

Canikon thrive because they are conservative with a product that is, by nature, conservative. There is room for mirrorless, but not necessarily at the compete expense of DSLR. Pentax at least stuck by the k-mount, OVF, and Ricoh has a great lineage. But both hit way too many foul balls (Q is a triple play, GXR is a force out at 2nd base).
Oh... And the worse thing of all that bugs me to no end about Pentax is that most of their products are kinda "half-baked" when compared to the brand's "goal";
WR and compact.

1) SDM lenses are WR but pretty large
2) Pancake lenses are lightweight and not fast(it's alright), but not WR or SDM
3) Their "best" lenses (FA Ltds) are VERY GOOD and expensive(understandable), but neither have QS nor WR

Seriously.. What is this? At the very least, if the DA pancake are not SDM but are WR, i find it acceptable. But as we can all see, their lens line up are neither here nor there when we look at what Pentax is advocating. Kind of a joke right?

And the icing on the cake is? Prices are increasing for nothing... -_-"....
05-28-2013, 07:34 PM   #400
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Don't forget that the SDM lenses are prone to bricking...
05-28-2013, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #401
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An FA Limited lens that has QS and WR would warrant the recent price increases IMHO. Much better idea than many PRIC has come up with but not very likely given their recent track records.
05-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
An FA Limited lens that has QS and WR would warrant the recent price increases IMHO. Much better idea than many PRIC has come up with but not very likely given their recent track records.
Exactly! Prices goes up for fun, i suppose.... Hey, perhaps it's Assembled in Vietnam now, must be special!

Or like i've said, Pentax has awaken and now elevating themselves to Leica levels.. Woohoooo! We are the cream of the crop now!!
C'mon Pentax, increase the FA Ltds prices up to the $5000 mark!
05-28-2013, 08:06 PM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by SyncGuy Quote
Exactly! Prices goes up for fun, i suppose.... Hey, perhaps it's Assembled in Vietnam now, must be special!

Or like i've said, Pentax has awaken and now elevating themselves to Leica levels.. Woohoooo! We are the cream of the crop now!!
C'mon Pentax, increase the FA Ltds prices up to the $5000 mark!
Please, PLEEZE, don't give them any more ideas.
05-28-2013, 08:33 PM   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
They are now listing Tamron lenses for Pentax on their website, not in stock but it's a start. I recently went one of their events and one of their people was interested in my K-30 and how I liked it, not "looking down at it" at all. I think next time I go in I may have to take it in and start shooting. Time to start posting a few more Pentax shots on their facebook page.
I think they were really confused by me because I am a wedding shooter. There is such a FF push in the wedding industry and this was last year at this time so everyone was all about the D800. I think it is easy to see why an outdoor/wildlife shooter would choose Pentax - weather sealing alone makes it a sound choice. It is just harder to see with weddings (although weather sealing is nice there too!). When I was there the one guy acknowledged that he had spoken with the Pentax rep, but they just didn't have enough demand to carry in stock. Still, tamron for Pentax on their website is a start. I should take the IIs in there... I have to say I find it to be a truly impressive camera!
05-28-2013, 09:06 PM   #405
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Please, PLEEZE, don't give them any more ideas.
Why not? It'll be good then i think.. LoL! That will mean that whoever have this lenses will stand to benefit when selling them off after we hit the $5000 mark.
Just like stocks, instant cash! LoL!
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