Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-15-2013, 09:17 AM   #166
Pentaxian
Pål Jensen's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Norway
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,149
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

Mirrorless is lost in the middle ground of not having pro-level IQ and AF, but having near sameness in cost. The premium for compact size is not as huge a draw as many expected. To make a break from the "good enough" smartphone, sensors have to be large enough (sorry Q) and the optics have to be great. A great # of buyers are not sold on EVF over $500..
You're wrong about the Q though. You are stucked in the film mindset translating into sensor size issues. Small sensor size in in fact an added value for the Q, apart from the size of the cameras and lenses. This is true as long as the output is good enough for the buyer. It doesn't matter that camera phones can give images equally good (debatable) as no one buy a Q as a cell phone substitute; it is a system camera. The Q can do things practically impossible with larger sensored cameras. Besides, the spacing between the Q, APS and MF diital is perfect so that each system provide large enough differences to not directly compete with each other (FF will mess thing up in this regard in the Pentax system). As the downloded files from the Q (JPEG's) compare favorable with scans (Nikon 9000ED) of 35mm slides shot on Velvia 50 ISO I have, I will argue that the Q is serious tool in its own right. Just imagine where the Q system is ten years from now....

05-15-2013, 09:49 AM   #167
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,434
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
You're wrong about the Q though. You are stucked in the film mindset translating into sensor size issues. Small sensor size in in fact an added value for the Q, apart from the size of the cameras and lenses. This is true as long as the output is good enough for the buyer. It doesn't matter that camera phones can give images equally good (debatable) as no one buy a Q as a cell phone substitute; it is a system camera. The Q can do things practically impossible with larger sensored cameras. Besides, the spacing between the Q, APS and MF diital is perfect so that each system provide large enough differences to not directly compete with each other (FF will mess thing up in this regard in the Pentax system). As the downloded files from the Q (JPEG's) compare favorable with scans (Nikon 9000ED) of 35mm slides shot on Velvia 50 ISO I have, I will argue that the Q is serious tool in its own right. Just imagine where the Q system is ten years from now....
Pal (I don't have the umlaut character), you've hit the nail squarely - first post I've yet read that understands Q. I am actually giving serious thought to selling all but one film body and a 4-lens MF kit and concentrating everything on Q format.
05-15-2013, 09:55 AM   #168
Site Supporter
boriscleto's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,872
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pal (I don't have the umlaut character)
It should be Alt U. Then type the character you want the umlaut over. At least thats how you do it on a Mac...

The character Pål uses is actually just Alt A. Again, on a Mac.

On Window$ you have to hold down the Alt key and type 0229 å

Last edited by boriscleto; 05-15-2013 at 10:23 AM.
05-15-2013, 10:02 AM   #169
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The Q can do things practically impossible with larger sensored cameras.
Like what?

05-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #170
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,434
Stick your hand through the fence.
05-15-2013, 10:06 AM   #171
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 25,861
Take a picture from inside a 3 inch pipe?
05-15-2013, 10:08 AM   #172
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Stick your hand through the fence.
Anything else? How many holes are there that the Q can fit through and the NIkon 1 cannot?

Compare camera dimensions side by side
05-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #173
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,247
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Like what?
Large depth of field with a good exposure in a situation requiring an aperture of f2?

05-15-2013, 10:15 AM   #174
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Large depth of field with a good exposure in a situation requiring an aperture of f2?
How much disadvantage would there be if, instead, you used a full-frame camera at F/11 and 47mm, compared to the Q at 8.5 and F/2?
05-15-2013, 10:27 AM   #175
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,922
I have no doubt that DSLR sales are plateauing. Those that were into SLR's in film have largely moved to digital, hence the growth.

I also seriously doubt that CSC are going to continue to grow as they have, based on the Japanese experience. If they do they need to drive value by dropping prices.I see that coming, but they will not replace DSLR's, rather take up the bridge/compact space on the bottom and some DSLR space at the top, but it's very hard to compete with the $349 DSLR kit.
05-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #176
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,247
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
How much disadvantage would there be if, instead, you used a full-frame camera at F/11 and 47mm, compared to the Q at 8.5 and F/2?
Assuming you are at iso 100 on the Q, your dynamic range would be 11 stops. At iso 3200 on a 5D MK III or D600, you will only have 10 stops of dynamic range.
05-15-2013, 10:32 AM   #177
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I have no doubt that DSLR sales are plateauing. Those that were into SLR's in film have largely moved to digital, hence the growth.

I also seriously doubt that CSC are going to continue to grow as they have, based on the Japanese experience. If they do they need to drive value by dropping prices.I see that coming, but they will not replace DSLR's, rather take up the bridge/compact space on the bottom and some DSLR space at the top, but it's very hard to compete with the $349 DSLR kit.
They don't compete on value, though... they primarily compete on size. They're selling to customers who don't know what sensor size is and don't care, don't know what a good viewfinder is and don't want one anyway.
05-15-2013, 10:36 AM   #178
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,922
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
You're wrong about the Q though. You are stucked in the film mindset translating into sensor size issues. Small sensor size in in fact an added value for the Q, apart from the size of the cameras and lenses. This is true as long as the output is good enough for the buyer. It doesn't matter that camera phones can give images equally good (debatable) as no one buy a Q as a cell phone substitute; it is a system camera. The Q can do things practically impossible with larger sensored cameras. Besides, the spacing between the Q, APS and MF diital is perfect so that each system provide large enough differences to not directly compete with each other (FF will mess thing up in this regard in the Pentax system). As the downloded files from the Q (JPEG's) compare favorable with scans (Nikon 9000ED) of 35mm slides shot on Velvia 50 ISO I have, I will argue that the Q is serious tool in its own right. Just imagine where the Q system is ten years from now....
The Q is a design camera. Small sensors add value in the same way the Pentax Auto 110 added value. How'd that work out? APS film = smaller cameras. How'd that go?

Low light small sensor performance sucks. Noisy. Looks obvious in most web-based sharing photos. 1" sensors and above make big headway at ISO 800 to 1600. Smaller sensors....still see it. That is the Achilles' Heel of the Q and all small sensors. To differentiate sensors for dedicated system cameras will need to be 1"+.

The Q has telecentricity. That's a no-brainer. It does well (as do most smaller sensors) in daylight (50 ISO), so comparing to Velvia is a canard so long as you keep the size small, don't crop, and don't care about resolution. Many do care, especially when plunking down $1,000 for the "system".
05-15-2013, 11:13 AM   #179
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,893
QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
That's a no-brainer. It does well (as do most smaller sensors) in daylight (50 ISO)
Minimum ISO for the Q is 125.
05-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #180
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I will argue that the Q is serious tool in its own right. Just imagine where the Q system is ten years from now....
Even just a couple of years from now... but I have to say, most Q pictures that I have seen are rather "meh" even just in web size, the IQ hasn't convinced me so far.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
cameras, dslr, japan, lens, mirrorless, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, percent, production, sales, sony
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BCN Mirrorless camera sales ranking for 2012 Christine Tham Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 6 01-04-2013 12:05 AM
2012 Camera Sales in Japan JPT Photographic Industry and Professionals 12 01-01-2013 06:14 AM
Pentax Q sales in Japan Paul Ewins Pentax Q 11 11-03-2012 05:34 AM
Quotes from a Sales Rep of Pentax (Japan) leonsroar Pentax News and Rumors 45 05-26-2012 04:04 AM
Sales of the K-x in Japan pushed back 17 days creampuff Pentax News and Rumors 13 10-11-2009 04:20 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:19 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top