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05-08-2013, 11:59 AM   #16
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The Q-line is often laughed upon in the west, even though it's a nice performer at what it does. The Japanese seems to generally like it though.
I'm surprised that multiple Pentax DSLR's actually competes with the dirt cheap D3200 and the old but still very acclaimed and sought after 5D Mark II.

Fuji got to have huge margins on their sales or else it looks very very bleak. Absence of Samsung is no surprise since they're Korean.

05-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What is interesting is Zeiss is now making lenses for the X-mount whereas they dropped the K-mount. I guess the frugal Pentax crowd was not cost effective anymore.
I suspect it was more like at the time, Limited lenses cost around the same, had autofocus and arguably better IQ at times(Better flare control, more true to life color rendition[According to some]). They should've kept the K line active, but on the backburner(Similar to Sigma, pump out generic mounts first, then produce specialty mounts like Pentax/Sony/Fuji)
05-08-2013, 01:31 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by VisualDarkness Quote
Absence of Samsung is no surprise since they're Korean.
Yeah. No Japanese companies enjoy it when Samsung pokes it's head in and takes the market by storm. NX Cameras are quite nice, though, I wish they'd reconnect with Pentax and exchange ideas. Samsung has good sensors, but terrible tweaking. Pentax has good sensor tweaking, but terrible sales channels. See a soulution here?
05-08-2013, 01:34 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
I suspect it was more like at the time, Limited lenses cost around the same, had autofocus and arguably better IQ at times(Better flare control, more true to life color rendition[According to some]).
One big advantage of the Zeiss lenses is their excellent pure MF implementation,
like the old Takumars, and far superior to the compromised MF on AF lenses.
Their flare control is at least as good as that on the Limited lenses.
Color rendition is a subjective choice:
but much as I like the rendition of my Limited lenses,
I do prefer the Zeiss look myself.

05-08-2013, 01:35 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
Samsung has good sensors, but terrible tweaking. Pentax has good sensor tweaking, but terrible sales channels. See a solution here?
Haven't we been down that road (and turned back from it)?
05-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Haven't we been down that road (and turned back from it)?
Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
05-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What is interesting is Zeiss is now making lenses for the X-mount whereas they dropped the K-mount. I guess the frugal Pentax crowd was not cost effective anymore.
I wondered about that.

Although Pentax does make very fine prime lenses...the Limited series....also the new 100 Macro, which score high in testing (Popular Photography tests)....also Zeiss are manual focus....compared to Limited being AF.

Nikon and Canon are not known for their shorter prime lenses (longer prime certainly) and of course the Canikon market is huge.

Given Pentax has a much smaller market and already makes their own fine short primes...may make it a market that isn't worth it to Zeiss.

BTW...I'm a fan of Zeiss (have a Zeiss-Ikon Super Ikonta B) and other German camera/lens companies...also have a 35mm Leica Rangefinder....so I'm not immune to the charm and quality of fine German designed equipment.
05-08-2013, 03:39 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote


Japanese 2012 market analysis: Only High End product sales didn’t decline. | sonyalpharumors

If you click on the graphs below the article, the SLR one on the right lists Pentax K5 (this must include all variants), K30 and Kr for a total of 4.5 percent.

The graph to the left is entitled "less SLR" which i take to mean mirrorless models, because thats all they list. In this chart, both the Q and the K01 are listed and said to have a total of 7.1 percent of mirrorless sales.

QuoteQuote:
Japanese Companies produced 44% less cameras (14,4 Million cameras).
- The compact camera production declined by 50% (11,2 Million cameras produced).
- The DSLR and the Mirrorless production declined by 25% (3,1 Million cameras produced).
- Only High End Camera and Lens sales saw a small growth. There is a growth of 14,1% in the Full Frame Lens production while APS-C lens production felt by 21 %.
- In the Japanese DSLR segment Sony has a 6,1% share. In 2010 Sony had 7,8%. Canon (52,2%) and Nikon (33,6%) are the leaders.
This is a rather dismal situation for the whole of the camera market. I think one can only view Pentax actions with this background in mind. Again, this is not the market outside Japan, just Japan units. When they talk about High End cameras - this refers to FF only.

I'm surprised that Sony is having such a hard time with this DSLR percentage, a lot more effort than Pentax and still only 6.1 percent of DSLRs. If one adds up all the Nex models listed in the "less" chart, they have 18.4 percent of the mirrorless sales which is some consolation and probably the reason they keep putting effort into that category. Of course, they are huge in selling sensors.

If one adds up all the FF units sold in Japan, its only 6.2 percent of the DSLR sales. Sales of DSLRs are much higher outside of Japan, and i think the reason is that Japan is still in a recession so that has biased the sales.
The two tables are about the Japanese market in 2012 and come from BCN Ranking.

The quoted text reflects CIPA production figures for the first quarter of 2013:

http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/d-201303_e.pdf for cameras and http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/s-201303_e.pdf for lenses.

05-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What is interesting is Zeiss is now making lenses for the X-mount whereas they dropped the K-mount. I guess the frugal Pentax crowd was not cost effective anymore.
Zeiss = 0.001% of the market.

Why else are farming their glass out to Sony and Fuji with the other guys' AF capacity. MF ain't cutting it anymore.
05-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Zeiss = 0.001% of the market.

Why else are farming their glass out to Sony and Fuji with the other guys' AF capacity. MF ain't cutting it anymore.
Zeiss is big with lenses not cameras.
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05-08-2013, 06:36 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
MF ain't cutting it anymore.
Videographers seem to like it,
and focus peaking has given it a real boost.

The oversize AF spots on Pentax also encourage MF.
05-08-2013, 07:46 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Haven't we been down that road (and turned back from it)?
Are you implying the K10D and K20D are bad cameras? Pentax ended the contract with Samsung because the agreement was complete. They helped Samsung get a foot in the door, Samsung helped provide low cost sensors and shared sales channels(To an extent). I wouldn't bet the farm that Toshiba or Sony couldn't put out a better FF sensor as it stands, but for a low end DSLR, Samsung would be my best bet. Considering most of the market for DSLRs is still in the entry level, a cheaper, 19MP DSLR with outstanding DR and acceptable noise levels and perhaps light weather sealing would result in a bit of a comeback for Pentax. It wouldn't be overnight, but it would be a step in the right direction. Let's also not forget that Samsung has some lens production capabilities, combined with Pentax's lens dep't, I think both companies could benefit from it.

Whatever the case, I'm just shooting in the dark, hoping Pentax gets something decent going.(I'd buy a low end DSLR, just for a second body)
05-08-2013, 08:00 PM   #28
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I think the Nikon D600 market share is artificially low due to the quality control issues with dust/debris on the sensor. If Nikon can fix the problem going forward, I think the camera will sell very well. It is a great camera. As it stands right now though, there is a Change.org petition with almost enough signatures to be sent to Nikon demanding that they deal with the problem and stop making owners pay to ship their cameras in for warranty service.
05-09-2013, 02:52 AM   #29
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@ Miguel : I don't know what you mean by dismal.
Isn't small beautiful ?
Is there any relation btw volumes of sales and pour personal shooting pleasure ?
05-09-2013, 02:56 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What is interesting is Zeiss is now making lenses for the X-mount whereas they dropped the K-mount. I guess the frugal Pentax crowd was not cost effective anymore.
I don't think it's that.

It's simply because Fuji is creating a different perception. They are extremely loud about their X series of cameras, advertises everywhere those three lenses, showcased fourth, the future of the mount, talk about future lenses, bodies etc. They showed X100s camera 6 months before it was ready to be shipped. Because they wanted people to lust about it, talking about it, shop in their minds. Like that Fuji was buying word of mouth advertising totally for free, and everyone was readying, budgeting, selling unwanted equipment in order to get a new X100s!

That is how you do it!

All that, while Pentax keeps their damn mouth shut about anything you ask them. Plus, they say nothing even if you don't ask them and they think that saying anything about their mount and their cameras is not their job at all. They live behind a wall of vacuum. Thus with each camera they issue once in a while, people ask if that is maybe Pentax's last?

That is the perception Pentax makes. It's the opposite of Fuji's perception.

Pentax is following some obscure and weird vow of silence or, simpler, they are incapable of saying anything that would make third party suppliers interested to make a product for the K-mount, and users eager to look forward to something with excitement.

Last edited by Uluru; 05-09-2013 at 03:18 AM.
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