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06-19-2013, 08:29 PM - 2 Likes   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
I do agree with this statement. My K-5 is good enough and I will wait until there is built-in wifi and connectivity to a mobil OS. Hopefully it will be the next camera, but knowing Pentax it will be a year or two away. We have to get the through the Eye-Fi versions first.

Dave
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On the other hand, I want peace of mind and quiet; meditation upon picture making, knowing that I won't be interrupting my work with immediate wireless and editing excuses. At the end of a day, I want to recollect my experience, and allow each image stored on the card and in my memory to grow into something more than just a snapshot. Recollection is more important than picture taking act alone.

To paraphrase Magnum photographer Gilles Peress: “.. you kept track in your head of what you were shooting, and evenings could be spent on a mental recap of the work you had made: the technical demands of digital editing [and uploading] in the field, at their worst, mean less reflection, less intelligence, less thinking time."

Immediate connectivity for those who need their digital snaps on Flickr and Facebook to get 'Likes' immediately. I leave that nervousness and "puppy barking for biscuits" mentality for others.

To be a photographer. A picture maker.
Not a puppy. Not pointless and shoot.

06-19-2013, 09:04 PM   #452
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Those who actually need JPEG connectivity (Phone, tablet or laptop) can use a Mobi card. Setup takes two minutes and transfer time is instantaneous. Cloud or network linking requires a Pro X2 card - slower, but available, and in-camera Wi-Fi wouldn't be any faster. RAW transfer is MUCH faster USB by card reader and always will be.

In-camera Wi-Fi is a feature I don't need and an expense I don't want to pay for - like Wi-Fi in a car (or a backup camera on a car).
06-19-2013, 10:20 PM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
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On the other hand, I want peace of mind and quiet; meditation upon picture making, knowing that I won't be interrupting my work with immediate wireless and editing excuses. At the end of a day, I want to recollect my experience, and allow each image stored on the card and in my memory to grow into something more than just a snapshot. Recollection is more important than picture taking act alone.

To paraphrase Magnum photographer Gilles Peress: .. you kept track in your head of what you were shooting, and evenings could be spent on a mental recap of the work you had made: the technical demands of digital editing [and uploading] in the field, at their worst, mean less reflection, less intelligence, less thinking time."

Immediate connectivity for those who need their digital snaps on Flickr and Facebook to get 'Likes' immediately. I leave that nervousness and "puppy barking for biscuits" mentality for others.

To be a photographer. A picture maker.
Not a puppy. Not pointless and shoot.
Profound
06-20-2013, 01:33 AM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Those who actually need JPEG connectivity (Phone, tablet or laptop) can use a Mobi card. Setup takes two minutes and transfer time is instantaneous. Cloud or network linking requires a Pro X2 card - slower, but available, and in-camera Wi-Fi wouldn't be any faster. RAW transfer is MUCH faster USB by card reader and always will be.

In-camera Wi-Fi is a feature I don't need and an expense I don't want to pay for - like Wi-Fi in a car (or a backup camera on a car).
How much does in-camera wifi really cost? The chips are produced in their tens of millions now so my guess is a very small sum (as distinct from a camera-maker adding a substantial mark-up for what they consider a valuable new feature but which many users may consider a basic expectation).

For the past few years, the standard bundle with DSLRs has consisted of a USB cable and a stand-alone software programme (Silkypix, e.g.). A USB card reader is not included with the bundle, so users have to find one for themselves unless their laptop has one built in.

It is now proposed that the standard bundle consists of a USB cable, wifi in the camera, stand-alone software, and an app for IOS/Android.

This is nothing more than evolutionary progress to reflect changes in the PC/software market. It may also reflect changes in the way cameras and their output are used - online versus print, for instance - but that is a secondary issue really and hard to quantify.

Elsewhere on these boards, Pentax are often praised for taking a solid, evolutionary view of camera development (K7 to K5 to K5II, for instance).

Quite why this example of evolutionary progress - wifi gradually replacing USB and cards for many uses - is causing folks to throw up their hands is a mystery. The world has moved on and if camera-makers don't they will pay a price. Isn't it all pretty simple?

Of course, there is also the question of what any new IOS/Android app could do. It might just be a simple viewer. It might be a RAW converter and editor. It might be a tethering and control programme. It might be a picture editor which uses the camera to do the editing rather than the tablet or phone - and when the editing is done the camera sends the finished jpeg to the device. All that is up to the imagination of the camera-maker. But none of this alters the basic evolutionary change in the market: we are now in a world of wifi and tablets.

06-20-2013, 01:52 AM   #455
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The wifi enabling components are very generic and cheap. There's a good chance we wouldn't even notice it in the camera price. Mecrox is right, it's evolution. Holding it back isn't smart. As long as it can be turned on/off by the user.

Personally, I don't have any use for it whatsoever. I never ever shoot JPEG, and never ever leave out post processing. I wouldn't know what to do with a RAW file on my tablet or phone. Maybe I might use it for posting family snaps on Facebook. No wait, I do that with my smartphone.

Point is, it's cheap enough to just implement it. I never use the USB cable either, but I don't complain about paying for it either.
06-20-2013, 02:19 AM   #456
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Wouldn't it be fun if Pentax quietly put a WiFi module in both the K-50 and K-500 models, keeping it secret because it's not yet supported in the firmware? Now that I think of it this could also be the reason for the fact that there's still no tethering software available for the K series. Pentax at some point (in September?) could release a WiFi control app for their latest cameras, along with new firmwares for the K-50 and K-500. That would be a stroke of pure genius resulting in lots of happy K-500 and K-50 owners.
06-20-2013, 03:01 AM   #457
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It would be a useless feature to me. Internet connections in many rural areas of the US are just really poor. It takes four or five hours for my wife to upload 80 jpegs (full size) to zenfolio. It's just the way it is. And cellular networks are even worse.

Even if the internet speeds were better, I would want to review my photos on a full size screen and at least tweak white balance, etc before uploading them. There are many times you look at your photos on the SLR screen and you think they are fine and then you get them on your computer and your realize they don't look so good...
06-20-2013, 03:15 AM   #458
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WiFI != internet upload. It can be used to wirelessly control your camera from a smartphone app; it may even show the Live View picture. For instance the latest GoPro action camera models are controlled this way.

06-20-2013, 05:37 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
WiFI != internet upload. It can be used to wirelessly control your camera from a smartphone app; it may even show the Live View picture. For instance the latest GoPro action camera models are controlled this way.
I have to agree here... being able to control your camera remotely would be great, particularly for birders and wildlife photographers but also for other photographers who have to wait patiently for something to happen... You could set up your tripod and sit in a remote location waiting to take your shot. Another bonus would be changing settings remotely...
06-20-2013, 05:51 AM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Wanting connectivity on the dslr is like wanting it on the fridge,.
Its already available, but take up rate is not high.
A perceived need, not necessarily a real one.
Of course that's not saying no one needs its (esp. if timely updates is money - eg. journalists, paparazzi, narcissistic bloggers/entertainers, etc) , but just like the connected fridge, most ppl don't.
You have it backwards.

Take up rate is not high because it is kludgy.

As a result people are foregoing or delaying or ignoring a systems camera purchase for a product which has more utility.

There is a reason why Apple is constantly running ads about how the iPhone is now the most popular camera in the world. They see an opportunity to take significant market away from camera makers...and they are doing just that all the way up to cameras in the $1,000 range. In the consumer dilemma between functional utility vs. IQ the market is tilting towards utility. The optical companies need to work swiftly to make their products more utilitarian and networked. Their red ink and stalling sales in, in part, related to this.

Consumers will no longer walk the SD card in the same way that they no longer buy CD's and walk them to the CD player. That whole model is done. SD cards will be the RAM and backup for a system camera...all cameras really. In fact, I full suspect we're going to start seeing the P&S market dump cards entirely and go the (cheaper and better power management) built-in memory and Wi-Fi/Bluetooth. That way they can compete with the smartphone.
06-20-2013, 05:57 AM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
WiFI != internet upload. It can be used to wirelessly control your camera from a smartphone app; it may even show the Live View picture. For instance the latest GoPro action camera models are controlled this way.
I've seen that. It's freakin' brilliant.

GoPro is single-handedly eviscerating a big chunk of the dedicated videocam market. Instead of competing with smartphones and sticking to a consumer electronics methodology, this small American start-up has chewed out Canon and Sony and Panasonic's margins by offering a tough video system I have seen on fishing boats, surfboards, motorcycles, and even a dump truck.

That's all money that normally could have gone to a Japanese electronics giant, but they are sooooooo behind the times they are getting eaten. Go-Pro = disruptive. They built a platform around networked images and creamed the market. Where smartphone video shouldn't go, GoPro will. Either way Japan Cam Inc. loses.
06-20-2013, 06:21 AM   #462
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Here's what the GoPro does:

GoPro App

My co-worker races motorcycles and he showed me his season start kit a few weeks ago.

GoPro also has a decent editing app for PC's. Free.

All models have WiFi built-in with remote and app control.
06-20-2013, 06:35 AM   #463
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It isn't the chip that costs the money - it is the software and firmware engineering. Apple makes such even more expensive by dragging thier feet and obfuscating hooks into their API, while at the same time they run the ads Aristophanes highlights. Apple is the new Microsoft - truly an evil, monopolistic competitor.

The reason a conmpany such as Pentax chooses to work wtih Eye-Fi as a stopgap measure is it is expedient to pay a fee to receive access to Eye-Fi's software engineering (which is already sunk cost) and Eye-Fi sees an opportunity to sell more cards.

Nothing is ever as transparent and easy as we seem to think on these Forums, especially if, in fact, there is a major shift in consumer wallet penetration going on as we type. Companies don't just lie back and take it - they try to fight off the conpetition somehow.
06-20-2013, 06:45 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I've seen that. It's freakin' brilliant.
GoPro is single-handedly eviscerating a big chunk of the dedicated videocam market. Instead of competing with smartphones and sticking to a consumer electronics methodology, this small American start-up has chewed out Canon and Sony and Panasonic's margins by offering a tough video system I have seen on fishing boats, surfboards, motorcycles, and even a dump truck.
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Indeed, and I'm not surprised the GoPro's are used extensively by the professional market, i.e. TV and movie production companies. I see GoPro's almost on a daily basis when watching Discovery Channel and History Channel. They're being mounted in the inside and outside of planes, cars and I've even seen them being used by divers (all GoPro's come weather sealed).
06-20-2013, 06:50 AM   #465
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I've seen that. It's freakin' brilliant.

GoPro is single-handedly eviscerating a big chunk of the dedicated videocam market. Instead of competing with smartphones and sticking to a consumer electronics methodology, this small American start-up has chewed out Canon and Sony and Panasonic's margins by offering a tough video system I have seen on fishing boats, surfboards, motorcycles, and even a dump truck.

That's all money that normally could have gone to a Japanese electronics giant, but they are sooooooo behind the times they are getting eaten. Go-Pro = disruptive. They built a platform around networked images and creamed the market. Where smartphone video shouldn't go, GoPro will. Either way Japan Cam Inc. loses.
Well, except for the fact that GoPro is using Sony imaging sensors (Sony IMX117 according to this tear down) So a decent chunk of the money still ends up in Japan.
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