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05-10-2013, 06:55 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And looking at the lens opening, the Q can/should be able to handle 1" sensor.
Allowing a 1.5mm movement in each of the 4 directions,
which is the range offered by "composition adjustment" on the K-5,
a Q without IBIS should allow a 9 x 7.5 mm sensor,
bigger than the 1/1.7" sensor used in the Canon G12.

However, that kind of sensor size gain
might be negated by the decentering in an OS lens.

05-10-2013, 08:29 PM - 2 Likes   #62
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"Pentax is doomed" internet babble counts for squat. Pentax says the Q is a successful product and the line will continue. No one here can argue otherwise without access to Pentax cost and sales targets. Ricoh says Pentax provided a positive net contribution this year. They plan to be #3 in DSLR's soon and have a 20-year plan to become #2. Whether they make it or not, it's an indication that they are in for the long term.

I bought a K-01 kit and a Q kit for the price of an RX100. The Q does things an RX100 can't even dream of. The K-01 murders the Sony for IQ and fits my 14 Pentax lenses. I'm a very happy camper.

Last edited by audiobomber; 05-10-2013 at 09:21 PM.
05-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
"Pentax is doomed" internet babble counts for squat. Pentax says the Q is a successful product and the line will continue. No one here can argue otherwise without access to Pentax cost and sales targets. Ricoh says Pentax provided a positive net contribution this year. They plan to be #3 in DSLR's soon and have a 20-year plan to become #2. Whether they make it or not, it's an indication that they are in for the long term.

I bought a K-01 kit and a Q kit for the price of an RX100. The Q does things an RX100 can't even dream of. The K-01 murders the Sony for IQ and fits my 14 Pentax lenses. I'm a very happy camper.
Totally agree! Both the Q and the K-01 offer phenomenal value. I don't even look twice at anything Sony has to offer anymore.
05-11-2013, 06:24 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
"Pentax is doomed" internet babble counts for squat. Pentax says the Q is a successful product and the line will continue. No one here can argue otherwise without access to Pentax cost and sales targets. Ricoh says Pentax provided a positive net contribution this year. They plan to be #3 in DSLR's soon and have a 20-year plan to become #2. Whether they make it or not, it's an indication that they are in for the long term.

I bought a K-01 kit and a Q kit for the price of an RX100. The Q does things an RX100 can't even dream of. The K-01 murders the Sony for IQ and fits my 14 Pentax lenses. I'm a very happy camper.
Correction - Pentax intends to be #1 in 20 years.

Q is actually a serious camera line. Pentax intends to develop the technology consistently and through incremental compounding of improvements until Q is an actual system mount and a real mount ecology.

Ricoh takes the long view and is absolutely dogged in its approach to achieving market dominance over time. They didn't buy Pentax as a hobby. They bought Pentax to win. Expect additional accretive acquisitions in cameras and related optical businesses.

05-11-2013, 06:57 AM - 1 Like   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Correction - Pentax intends to be #1 in 20 years.

Q is actually a serious camera line. Pentax intends to develop the technology consistently and through incremental compounding of improvements until Q is an actual system mount and a real mount ecology.

Ricoh takes the long view and is absolutely dogged in its approach to achieving market dominance over time. They didn't buy Pentax as a hobby. They bought Pentax to win. Expect additional accretive acquisitions in cameras and related optical businesses.
If that's true then there's no other rational conclusion than Ricoh's been a failure. After all, they've been making cameras since the 1930's.
05-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #66
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Oh, so sophisticated and snarky. If you will kindly define success we can then rationally disuss failure Otherwise i can only surmise internet forums bring out otherwise silent people in the world and give them voice.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-11-2013 at 07:53 AM.
05-11-2013, 08:13 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
"Pentax is doomed" internet babble counts for squat. Pentax says the Q is a successful product and the line will continue. No one here can argue otherwise without access to Pentax cost and sales targets. Ricoh says Pentax provided a positive net contribution this year. They plan to be #3 in DSLR's soon and have a 20-year plan to become #2. Whether they make it or not, it's an indication that they are in for the long term.

I bought a K-01 kit and a Q kit for the price of an RX100. The Q does things an RX100 can't even dream of. The K-01 murders the Sony for IQ and fits my 14 Pentax lenses. I'm a very happy camper.
The APS-C K-01 should be compared to the APS-C Sony NEX-5N not the 1" RX100 compact pocket size P&S that has a fast F1.8 zoom. The price of the K-01 and Q were $750 and $700 when they came out and after they were out of production Pentax had a fire sale on them to sell off the excess inventory .The RX100 price is still high after a year because of demand.

Compare camera dimensions side by side
Compare camera dimensions side by side
05-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Oh, so sophisticated and snarky. If you will kindly define success we can then rationally disuss failure Otherwise i can only surmise internet forums bring out otherwise silent people in the world and give them voice.
Gee whiz... my post was hardly a mystery. You stated Ricoh's objective is to achieve "market dominance." Different people will view this differently but it might be even a stretch to say Canon has achieved market dominance. Their market share is under 50%, IIRC. What I know for sure is being about the smallest camera maker in the world is the extreme opposite of "market dominance" no matter how you look at it. Now maybe this is a new objective they revealed to you in the last month or so but if they've been after this for any length of time in relation to the 70+ years they've been making cameras -- well, what else can you conclude?

05-11-2013, 08:41 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The price of the K-01 and Q were $750 and $700 when they came out and after they were out of production Pentax had a fire sale on them to sell off the excess inventory .The RX100 price is still high after a year because of demand.
That is just data. What's relevant to me is what I actually paid, and the utility I got from my investment. If I had gone with Sony, the cost would have been the same and the utility would have seriously decreased.

> pocket size P&S that has a fast F1.8 zoom

That's from the Sony marketing brochure. Note that it is only f1.8 at 28mm, decreasing rapidly to f4.9 at 100mm. Not a fast lens.
05-11-2013, 08:45 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
That is just data. What's relevant to me is what I actually paid, and the utility I got from my investment. If I had gone with Sony, the cost would have been the same and the utility would have seriously decreased.

> pocket size P&S that has a fast F1.8 zoom

That's from the Sony marketing brochure. Note that it is only f1.8 at 28mm, decreasing rapidly to f4.9 at 100mm. Not a fast lens.
So 28mm @F1.8 is not fast on a zoom lens ? Show me a faster one.
05-11-2013, 08:54 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh takes the long view and is absolutely dogged in its approach to achieving market dominance over time. They didn't buy Pentax as a hobby. They bought Pentax to win. Expect additional accretive acquisitions in cameras and related optical businesses.
I ask you again - define success, don't tell me what Ricoh wasn't. Clearly, they bought Pentax to change Ricoh - and exploit Pentax at a ridiculously low price.

And FWIW, I was referring to becoming the dominant copier maker globally, the 279th largest company on Earth, from virtually nothing 40 years ago. Leveraging their corporate culture in cameras with the (currently) #3 full-line camera company (compacts, super-compacts, mirrorless, dSLR's and MF) over the next 3 - 5 years, Ricoh expects to be a clear third with significantly larger share. In 20 years they expect to be #1.

Choose to be a negative observer and cite the past, when Ricoh cameras intentionally was a niche maker and the corporation applied its resources to business equipment during the most fantastic technology advance in business equipment in history.

I choose to be positive. Ricoh has chosen to commit resources to the emergence of a massive middle class globally over the next 20 years. Capitalism has won. Ricoh will sell to its emerging 2 billion consumers (putting America's paltry 200 million to shame), an equally powerful and fantastic opportunity.

Too bad I probably won't be here to learn who was right.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-11-2013 at 09:16 AM.
05-11-2013, 09:18 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I ask you again - define success, don't tell me what Ricoh wasn't.

And FWIW, I was referring to becoming the dominant copier maker globally, the 279th largest company on Earth, from virtually nothing 40 years ago. Leveraging their corporate culture in cameras with the (currently) #3 full-line camera company (compacts, super-compacts, mirrorless, dSLR's and MF) over the next 3 - 5 years, Ricoh expects to be a clear third with significantly larger share. In 20 years they expect to be #1.

Choose to be a negative observer and cite the past, when Ricoh cameras intentionally was a niche maker and the corporation applied its resources to business equipment during the most fantastic technology advance in business equipment in history.

I choose to be positive. Ricoh has chosen to commit resources to the emergence of a massive middle calss globally over the next 20 years. Capitalism has won and Ricoh will sell to its emerging 2 billion consumers (putting America's paltry 200 million to shame), an equally powerful and fantastic opportunity.

Too bad I probably won't be here to learn who was right.
Ricoh is the one defining success, not me, assuming your statement of their market dominance objective is accurate. Market dominance often means a market share of 60% or greater though there are some circumstances where that could be as low as around 45% if the next largest firm is substantially smaller. By this definition, even Canon does not have market dominance today.

I see nothing in place that's going to propel Pentax/Ricoh from #5 or #6 in the camera business to #1 with at least a 60% market share. Am I missing something they are doing that will get them there?
05-11-2013, 09:42 AM   #73
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I don't understand why it would be unusual for them to change their business model from what was 30 years ago; after all, the market now is nothing like in the 1980s.

Photography simply wasn't too important for Ricoh, but with the copier market declining, they are looking to strengthen their business portfolio; and photography is one such area. Like they did with the copiers, M&A is an effective tool - though I suspect there's little reason to further acquire other camera-related businesses (maybe some ancillaries, but no more than that).
It is entirely plausible that Ricoh is planning to transform the camera business from some sort of a hobby project to one of the more important activities. But we're talking about a 20 years plan, so we shouldn't declare failure when they couldn't succeed after the first one year and a half.
05-11-2013, 10:02 AM   #74
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Saying they have a 20 year plan shouldn't make them immune from criticism, however, we don't have many choices but to wait or buy from someone else. I'd love to see the Q with a 2/3 or 1" sensor, but I don't see it happening. At the price I paid, it's better than a regular point and shoot. My wife loves it, and I am looking forward to using it for telephoto applications.
05-11-2013, 10:26 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
So 28mm @F1.8 is not fast on a zoom lens ? Show me a faster one.
ZX-1 & 2, LX7, X10 & 20, MX-1, G15, all have fast lenses, not just at 28mm.
My Q is faster at 1650mm than the RX100 at 100mm.

Last edited by audiobomber; 05-11-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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