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05-11-2013, 10:34 AM   #76
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QuoteQuote:
And FWIW, I was referring to becoming the dominant copier maker globally, the 279th largest company on Earth, from virtually nothing 40 years ago.
Right, compare that to Apple, Google, Samsung etc in a fraction of that time.

05-11-2013, 11:08 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
ZX-1 & 2, LX7, X10 & 20, MX-1, G15, all have fast lenses, not just at 28mm.
My Q is faster at 1650mm than the RX100 at 100mm.
The RX100 is the only one with fast zoom that fits in a pocket and that is why it sells at the same price today as it did when it first came out last year.
http://alturl.com/sfybn

Pentax Q :
http://alturl.com/qx6is

Last edited by jogiba; 05-11-2013 at 11:23 AM.
05-11-2013, 11:35 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Right, compare that to Apple, Google, Samsung etc in a fraction of that time.
Samsung achieved their position in roughly twice the period of time and using the roughly same technological explosion. When I started in business in 1978 high speed plain paper duplication was in its infancy and cost 10 cents a page - or 38 cents a page in current dollars (source, US Bureau of Labor Statistics). Xerox was king. Canon, HP, IBM and a bit later Ricoh invaded the space (and survived).

Apple grew to its present position in what, six fewer years?

Google actually does - nothing - manufactures - nothing - and exists physically - nowhere - outside of server farms, not to say their revenue and market capitalization aren't real, it just isn't a fair comparison.

But quibbling over these dates is a form of avoiding the discussion. Ricoh says they will make Pentax the third major camera brand (by that mean full-line or multi-line, not just a huge number of compacts); Ricoh has grown by acquisition and consolidation in business equipment; Pentax was the first Ricoh camera acquisition - why should they stop here? (Olympus? Sigma?, Sony?, Fuji?); it is all optics anyway; who cares how they become #3 in the intermediate term, by whatever measure they want - only that they do.

Unless a very senior executive outright lied to me, personally, face-to-face, Ricoh is committed to the three current mounts (perhaps not to the exclusion of a fourth); Full Frame is real, but not soon; there is a plan; good things are coming.

The exact words were, "Ricoh believes there is room for a third major camera brand and it will be Pentax in the intermediate term. The twenty year Vision is to be #1."
05-11-2013, 11:41 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Apple grew to its present position in what, six fewer years?
What time frame and what product do you want to consider?

From 1981 when IBM 'legitimized' the PC? From 1997 when Steve Jobs took back the company? Or 2001 when Apple introduced the iPod and started down the path to becoming Apple Inc. instead of Apple Computer...

05-11-2013, 11:54 AM   #80
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QuoteQuote:
Google actually does - nothing - manufactures - nothing - and exists physically - nowhere - outside of server farms, not to say their revenue and market capitalization aren't real, it just isn't a fair comparison.
List of Google products - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Nexus - Google
Google Chromebook Pixel
05-11-2013, 11:58 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
The RX100 is the only one with fast zoom that fits in a pocket and that is why it sells at the same price today as it did when it first came out last year.
The RX100 does not have a fast zoom, that's why it fits in your pocket. I use a case, not a pocket, for my BlackBerry and my camera.

You keep trying to spin the high price of the RX100 as a positive. I bought two Pentax cameras I like better, and paid less for both combined. That's a positive.
05-11-2013, 12:10 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The RX100 does not have a fast zoom, that's why it fits in your pocket. I use a case, not a pocket, for my BlackBerry and my camera.

You keep trying to spin the high price of the RX100 as a positive. I bought two Pentax cameras I like better, and paid less for both combined. That's a positive.
Again, what camera has a faster zoom @28mm ? Is F1.8 @28mm in a zoom slow ? Exactly what do YOU consider a fast zoom ? What Pentax zoom has F1.8 ?
05-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Again, what camera has a faster zoom @28mm ? Is F1.8 @28mm in a zoom slow ? Exactly what do YOU consider a fast zoom ? What Pentax zoom has F1.8 ?
Just to throw fuel on the fire, the equivalent max aperture of the RX100 is ~F/4.85.

05-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Just to throw fuel on the fire, the equivalent max aperture of the RX100 is ~F/4.85.
At 28mm eqiv ? What is the Pentax Q 02 zoom at the wide end ?
05-11-2013, 01:27 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The RX100 does not have a fast zoom, that's why it fits in your pocket. I use a case, not a pocket, for my BlackBerry and my camera.

You keep trying to spin the high price of the RX100 as a positive. I bought two Pentax cameras I like better, and paid less for both combined. That's a positive.
The RX100 is a true compact with a sensor 3.5x that of the the Q and as much as 6x larger than any competitor. The RX100 tops out almost all prosumer reviews. It's pricey (same as the Q v.1. when first released), but it is groundbreaking. Sony is clearly staking it out on larger sensors.
05-11-2013, 01:38 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Again, what camera has a faster zoom @28mm ? Is F1.8 @28mm in a zoom slow ? Exactly what do YOU consider a fast zoom ? What Pentax zoom has F1.8 ?
Several cameras have f1.8 zooms at 28mm, I listed them above. The difference is, they have fast zooms at the long end too, negating the advantage of the RX100's larger sensor.

QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
What Pentax zoom has F1.8 ?
The MX-1.

The Q 01 prime is f1.9 at 47mm and my FA 35mm is f2 at 52mm. I'm a normal shooter, so those are my predominate choices, except for the odd wide shot and lots of very long tele.

QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
At 28mm eqiv ? What is the Pentax Q 02 zoom at the wide end ?
I am not interested in the Q slow zoom. I bought the 01, fisheye and 06 zoom (f2.8 80-250mm). And a K-mount adapter. I will likely add the wide prime when it's available.
05-11-2013, 01:45 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The RX100 is a true compact with a sensor 3.5x that of the the Q and as much as 6x larger than any competitor. The RX100 tops out almost all prosumer reviews. It's pricey (same as the Q v.1. when first released), but it is groundbreaking. Sony is clearly staking it out on larger sensors.
Except it doesn't show more detail than other advanced compacts, the slow zoom eats up its sensor size advantage at the long end, and it has Sony controls.
05-11-2013, 01:52 PM   #88
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look interesting :-)))
05-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #89
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Which of those hardware items (aside from the cars, that Google most decidedly did not manufacture) is not Motorola? (Which my tend to support my point about Ricoh growing by acquisition.

You all are just picking at what you think are little tiny inconsistencies in my statemnts to avoid the main point - Define success so we can discuss failure in context; and tell me why Ricoh can NOT make Pentax #3 in the intermediate term (which I define as roughly 5 years). And you are only doing it to be cute and argumentative and negative about Pentax, which is so the rage on this Forum.

All I ever read here is what they've done wrong; what crap they are; how they're doomed; then how their pricing policy (which is virtually identical in strategy to that of Nikon) is unfair to all their customers (and they are doomed, I say) and all wrong. But they don't have any products that are good (List: their failures point by point) or any marketing or any market share or .... well, anything but a few old lens designs from the bygone days of film.

OK then - what should they do?

Can't say, can you?

They have a plan. They're executing the plan. They think it will work and they'll be the #3 camera maker. Maybe so, maybe no, but it sure as hell beats whatever they were doing before.
05-11-2013, 02:46 PM   #90
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I hope Pentax is #3 in five years since I have a myriad of Pentax gear but my gut feeling is they will have a hard time getting there. BTW I still can't believe you said "Google actually does - nothing - manufactures - nothing - and exists physically - nowhere - outside of server farms, not to say their revenue and market capitalization aren't real, it just isn't a fair comparison." since they have over 54,000 employees working in over 70 locations in more than 40 countries.
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