2012 Japan sales of mirrorless & SLRs

**monochrome** · 05-17-2013, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by cfraz

Don't let those comments get you down. Different folks have different criteria for judging value. Remember your antagonist here was the one who vehemently argued the Big Mac is the world's best hamburger because it sold the most units. I'm not an economist and I don't care a bit how many they've sold. My value criterion for burgers is taste.

The Q sub forum is chock full of comments like "I haven't had this much fun shooting in years." Apparently having the largest sensor isn't the only factor that brings satisfaction to photographers. I was certainly sceptical but after looking at many Q photos decided it might be ok. So for just over 200 bones I got my kit. And guess what? It is an incredibly fun camera for me. And there are tons of shooting situations and picture viewing scenarios where a 1 inch sensor stuffed in the Q would make zero perceptible difference in results. For other situations I have my K200D (yes, I know this just opens me up to more ridicule - there are cameras this size with bigger sensor).

I'm glad there are still companies making products not limited to a single most popular or most economically viable design criterion. The Q isn't for those who mostly talk about cameras, but for those who like to shoot it can be just the ticket.

Man the internet sucks for sarcasm. You might see one or two entries by me in the Q and K-01 Forums

(though sometimes I do wonder why I always pick the losers except manual lenses).

**Aristophanes** · 05-17-2013, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Quicksand

A crop DA? Enjoy your half a lens.

(Totally kidding. The 15 is favorite lens by far, and I also have the 43 and 77.)

Hah!

This is where Pentax excels...a compact, almost pancake, WA prime.

My FF is film: MZ-S, MZ-6, *ist, ME Super, Super Program, Hexar AF, and a bunch of RF's.

Mamiya 645 for bigger than FF, not that crop Pentax 645D crap!

Hold on...what were they thinking at Pentax cropping an MF sensor...oh, wait, now I see where the Q comes from. If you can crop sensor medium format....

Kunzite · 05-17-2013, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

So the Q, a camera with 5.9% of the MILC market share, is pretty good at 10% of the photomilieu (just made that up), but worse than the other 90% of photos taken.

That's BS and you know it.

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Sales figures are dismal. In fact, Pentax Japan has twice commented that sales are disappointing, and have gone to lengths, not normally seen in a Japanese camera company, of assuring the product.

Source for both comments, please.
The only thing I was able to find (actually remembering the Jonathan Martin's interview) is Pentax UK saying the Q was selling below expectations. UK is not Japan.

ElJamoquio · 05-17-2013, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

To say the Q sensor is too small is the same as telling someone that any wrench or socket under 6mm is not worth buying. The 5.5x crop has an advantage when using telephoto and macro lenses.

Personally I'd prefer cropping photos myself rather than having them pre-cropped, but I understand others may differ.

jogiba · 05-17-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Personally I'd prefer cropping photos myself rather than having them pre-cropped, but I understand others may differ.

When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math.

**Pål Jensen** · 05-17-2013, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

So the Q, a camera with 5.9% of the MILC market share, is pretty good at 10% of the photomilieu (just made that up), but worse than the other 90% of photos taken.

Niche of a niche. The whole point of an ILC system is to be very good in all segments of the photomilieu (really liking this word).

Each to their own, but the value proposition of the Q is weak.

The Q have about the same share of the mirrorless market as the total share of FF (Nikon + Canon and Sony) have of the DSLR market. That should put things into perspective.

Have 6% share of the market with one model is nothing short of remarkable...

**Pål Jensen** · 05-17-2013, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math.

The Q is a fantastic high power teleconverter for K-system users. I think I have to get me one...

**Pål Jensen** · 05-17-2013, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Sales figures are dismal. In fact, Pentax Japan has twice commented that sales are disappointing, and have gone to lengths, not normally seen in a Japanese camera company, of assuring the product..

That was the Q. The Q10 is highly sucessful. The original Q was too expensively made and hence to expensive when released. I'm sure we will see more Q system cameras in the future. Also higher level than the Q10.

**monochrome** · 05-17-2013, 02:21 PM

Apple iPhone is the world's most popular camera.

According to this post on the iPhone thread Instagram will be the only HS Graduation photos most seniors will have. Those seem to be good enough ..... but Q isn't?

Whatever. I have three Q's and 4 lenses. I'm set for a long time even if they casket the mount and start over.

Of course, I also have an i10 ...........

**monochrome** · 05-17-2013, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

That was the Q. The Q10 is highly sucessful. The original Q was too expensively made and hence to expensive when released. I'm sure we will see more Q system cameras in the future. Also higher level than the Q10.

Pentax is committed to the Q mount. Seeing handwriting, I'm hoovering up original Q's at these deal prices.

jogiba · 05-17-2013, 02:32 PM - **1 Like**

Here are two Q sample images that show what you could get from the tiny 5.5x crop sensor.
cat taken with Q
sunflower & bees taken with Q

Kunzite · 05-17-2013, 02:38 PM

More than adequate for web (and small prints). I guess 90% of all the photos taken are printed A3+ or larger...

ElJamoquio · 05-17-2013, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math.

Absolutely, you'll have more MP. In my experience I still have better pics cropping from the K-5.

**Pål Jensen** · 05-17-2013, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

More than adequate for web (and small prints). I guess 90% of all the photos taken are printed A3+ or larger...

The examples above is more than good enough for A3+ prints.
If you click on the images they'll get significantly larger than A3 on your monitor. You can hang these on your wall with no problems. Pity they don't have more DOF though...

Incidentally, if someone would have me to guess what Pentax camera these had been shot with I would have guessed the Pentax K10.....

**Pål Jensen** · 05-17-2013, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Absolutely, you'll have more MP. In my experience I still have better pics cropping from the K-5.

Surely you are joking....

05-17-2013, 12:38 PM	#243
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Aristophanes So the Q, a camera with 5.9% of the MILC market share, is pretty good at 10% of the photomilieu (just made that up), but worse than the other 90% of photos taken. That's BS and you know it. Originally posted by Aristophanes Sales figures are dismal. In fact, Pentax Japan has twice commented that sales are disappointing, and have gone to lengths, not normally seen in a Japanese camera company, of assuring the product. Source for both comments, please. The only thing I was able to find (actually remembering the Jonathan Martin's interview) is Pentax UK saying the Q was selling below expectations. UK is not Japan. Last edited by Kunzite; 05-17-2013 at 01:24 PM.

05-17-2013, 02:16 PM	#246
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Aristophanes So the Q, a camera with 5.9% of the MILC market share, is pretty good at 10% of the photomilieu (just made that up), but worse than the other 90% of photos taken. Niche of a niche. The whole point of an ILC system is to be very good in all segments of the photomilieu (really liking this word). Each to their own, but the value proposition of the Q is weak. The Q have about the same share of the mirrorless market as the total share of FF (Nikon + Canon and Sony) have of the DSLR market. That should put things into perspective. Have 6% share of the market with one model is nothing short of remarkable... Last edited by Pål Jensen; 05-17-2013 at 02:22 PM.

05-17-2013, 02:51 PM	#254
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Kunzite More than adequate for web (and small prints). I guess 90% of all the photos taken are printed A3+ or larger... The examples above is more than good enough for A3+ prints. If you click on the images they'll get significantly larger than A3 on your monitor. You can hang these on your wall with no problems. Pity they don't have more DOF though... Incidentally, if someone would have me to guess what Pentax camera these had been shot with I would have guessed the Pentax K10..... Last edited by Pål Jensen; 05-17-2013 at 03:09 PM.

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05-17-2013, 12:15 PM	#241
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by cfraz Don't let those comments get you down. Different folks have different criteria for judging value. Remember your antagonist here was the one who vehemently argued the Big Mac is the world's best hamburger because it sold the most units. I'm not an economist and I don't care a bit how many they've sold. My value criterion for burgers is taste. The Q sub forum is chock full of comments like "I haven't had this much fun shooting in years." Apparently having the largest sensor isn't the only factor that brings satisfaction to photographers. I was certainly sceptical but after looking at many Q photos decided it might be ok. So for just over 200 bones I got my kit. And guess what? It is an incredibly fun camera for me. And there are tons of shooting situations and picture viewing scenarios where a 1 inch sensor stuffed in the Q would make zero perceptible difference in results. For other situations I have my K200D (yes, I know this just opens me up to more ridicule - there are cameras this size with bigger sensor). I'm glad there are still companies making products not limited to a single most popular or most economically viable design criterion. The Q isn't for those who mostly talk about cameras, but for those who like to shoot it can be just the ticket. Man the internet sucks for sarcasm. You might see one or two entries by me in the Q and K-01 Forums (though sometimes I do wonder why I always pick the losers except manual lenses).

05-17-2013, 12:18 PM	#242
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Quicksand A crop DA? Enjoy your half a lens. (Totally kidding. The 15 is favorite lens by far, and I also have the 43 and 77.) Hah! This is where Pentax excels...a compact, almost pancake, WA prime. My FF is film: MZ-S, MZ-6, *ist, ME Super, Super Program, Hexar AF, and a bunch of RF's. Mamiya 645 for bigger than FF, not that crop Pentax 645D crap! Hold on...what were they thinking at Pentax cropping an MF sensor...oh, wait, now I see where the Q comes from. If you can crop sensor medium format....

05-17-2013, 01:20 PM	#244
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by jogiba To say the Q sensor is too small is the same as telling someone that any wrench or socket under 6mm is not worth buying. The 5.5x crop has an advantage when using telephoto and macro lenses. Personally I'd prefer cropping photos myself rather than having them pre-cropped, but I understand others may differ.

05-17-2013, 02:16 PM	#245
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Personally I'd prefer cropping photos myself rather than having them pre-cropped, but I understand others may differ. When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math.

05-17-2013, 02:17 PM	#247
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by jogiba When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math. The Q is a fantastic high power teleconverter for K-system users. I think I have to get me one...

05-17-2013, 02:20 PM	#248
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Aristophanes Sales figures are dismal. In fact, Pentax Japan has twice commented that sales are disappointing, and have gone to lengths, not normally seen in a Japanese camera company, of assuring the product.. That was the Q. The Q10 is highly sucessful. The original Q was too expensively made and hence to expensive when released. I'm sure we will see more Q system cameras in the future. Also higher level than the Q10.

05-17-2013, 02:21 PM	#249
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Apple iPhone is the world's most popular camera. According to this post on the iPhone thread Instagram will be the only HS Graduation photos most seniors will have. Those seem to be good enough ..... but Q isn't? Whatever. I have three Q's and 4 lenses. I'm set for a long time even if they casket the mount and start over. Of course, I also have an i10 ...........

05-17-2013, 02:32 PM	#250
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Pål Jensen That was the Q. The Q10 is highly sucessful. The original Q was too expensively made and hence to expensive when released. I'm sure we will see more Q system cameras in the future. Also higher level than the Q10. Pentax is committed to the Q mount. Seeing handwriting, I'm hoovering up original Q's at these deal prices.

05-17-2013, 02:32 PM - 1 Like	#251
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Here are two Q sample images that show what you could get from the tiny 5.5x crop sensor. cat taken with Q sunflower & bees taken with Q

05-17-2013, 02:38 PM	#252
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	More than adequate for web (and small prints). I guess 90% of all the photos taken are printed A3+ or larger...

05-17-2013, 02:45 PM	#253
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by jogiba When you crop a sensor or photo from an APS-C K-5 for example you are cropping a large % of the pixels (16mp) but on the Q you are using all 12mp and that could give you a better image using macro or telephoto lenses. Go from 1.5x APS-C crop to 5.5x crop you go from 16mp down to 1mp. Do the math. Absolutely, you'll have more MP. In my experience I still have better pics cropping from the K-5.

05-17-2013, 02:55 PM	#255
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Absolutely, you'll have more MP. In my experience I still have better pics cropping from the K-5. Surely you are joking....