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06-07-2013, 01:08 PM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Ah, I did miss it. It's on top in the front. I don't like that as much as the K-5 but it seems OK.
Phew! You had me going for a minute! No green button would be a huge disappointment!

06-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
I really like TAV mode, and use it most of the time. However, I've always wondered why no one at all has introduced a camera with three dials... one for aperture, one for shutter, and one for ISO. Spin to adjust, press to make automatic.
Completely agree. One of the reasons why I'm jealous of my friend's NEX-7 (now that I think about it, I'm just assuming you can assign the 3 dials for ISO/shutter/aperture...someone can confirm). It's crazy to me that ISO is treated as a menu setting on some cameras instead of a cornerstone of exposure. Pentax is better in this regard, with Sv and TAv modes, but a three-dial setup would be sweet if the Pentax ergonomics could be maintained. Just a personal wish.

Speaking of personal wishes, if Pentax put the 16mp sensor in a K-5ish body with uncrippled K-mount, focus peaking, and swivel up/down screen a la MX-1, I would upgrade my K-7 in a heartbeat--spousal approval be damned! Actually, if they did that in a K-01ish body, I would upgrade in two heartbeats. I know many eschew the articulating screen, but I would LOVE to get a waist-level-finder-esque experience on a DSLR.

Anyway, re: the rumored K-50...I'm neutral on the looks, like the K-30 better. I'm glad they're updating their line, albeit incrementally. I imagine they're mainly biding their time while a new flagship is prepared. I'm considering it as a mid-cycle refresh of a mid-level body. However, I don't understand why they didn't give the warm-over treatment to the K-01 and release it as a true entry-level $400+ model. Don't play up the mirrorless or designer aspects--just make it small and simple (one dial, no WR, etc) and inexpensive! But what do I (or any of us) know--we're just the customers!

Okay, I rarely comment on rumor threads, so it all just spilled out. Hope somebody out there found my views worth reading.
06-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #348
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IIRC, the K-30 was marketed as being splash resistant but with no mention of dust (unlike the above). Perhaps the new body allowed better seals?

Any bets on the colours in which it will be released?
06-07-2013, 01:27 PM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
It's crazy to me that ISO is treated as a menu setting on some cameras instead of a cornerstone of exposure.
I bet it's due to the heritage from the film cameras.

06-07-2013, 01:49 PM   #350
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Completely agree. One of the reasons why I'm jealous of my friend's NEX-7 (now that I think about it, I'm just assuming you can assign the 3 dials for ISO/shutter/aperture...someone can confirm). It's crazy to me that ISO is treated as a menu setting on some cameras instead of a cornerstone of exposure. Pentax is better in this regard, with Sv and TAv modes, but a three-dial setup would be sweet if the Pentax ergonomics could be maintained. Just a personal wish.
IMO Nex7 is not particularly good ergonomically (I much prefer Nex6). With all three dials on the back on Nex7 makes it slower and more difficult to control than a two wheeled Pentax DSLR IMO. Two wheels with extra buttons for using ISO and exp comp work very well..

Using more dials might sound good, but it's very difficult to design the camera with easy reach with more than two dials. On a DSLR the controls should be optimized for use with you eye on the viewfinder IMO, and made to minimize the need of changing grip on the camera in operation.
06-07-2013, 02:46 PM   #351
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Well, if two dials are good, and three would be better, then . . .

INTRODUCING the Pentax K-1 Fusion ProGlide! Five dials for your closest shave best photos ever!

Aperture!
Shutter speed!
ISO!
Exposure comp!
And, of course, uhhh, let's see here . . . OK, why not go with focus fine-tuning!

Five dials! One for each finger -- no need to move your hand to search for buttons!



Joking (mostly) aside, I do think the prevailing two-wheel system works pretty well, but it would sometimes be nice if there were a more direct and at-hand way to access ISO and +/- EV. But I'm not sure more dials are the way to go.

I haven't used a NEX7, but it looks unwieldy to me.
06-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
IMO Nex7 is not particularly good ergonomically (I much prefer Nex6). With all three dials on the back on Nex7 makes it slower and more difficult to control than a two wheeled Pentax DSLR IMO. Two wheels with extra buttons for using ISO and exp comp work very well..

Using more dials might sound good, but it's very difficult to design the camera with easy reach with more than two dials. On a DSLR the controls should be optimized for use with you eye on the viewfinder IMO, and made to minimize the need of changing grip on the camera in operation.

What if we got a jog dial like on the Canon or K10 on the back you could set for iso, then have the two command dials. The jog dial would take up very little room and still allow the center to have the four way selector and middle button.

The only reason I see this not happening is because so many shooters set iso to automatic or use some combination of automatic modes. There seems to be fewer and fewer people who shoot full manual anymore. I know I prefer to not let software make my decisions for me...but sometimes it is easier.

Well I guess you could set that dial as an eV selector
06-07-2013, 03:02 PM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
I really like TAV mode, and use it most of the time. However, I've always wondered why no one at all has introduced a camera with three dials... one for aperture, one for shutter, and one for ISO. Spin to adjust, press to make automatic.
On an iPhone screen maybe? Buy using a real camera with a real lens, very hard to do without big sacrifices.

Because you can't do it with one hand. The essence of the DSLRs philosophy is to make a camera sitting in one hand as comfortably as possible, by holding it with just three fingers. That alone is quite an accomplishment. Then using thumb and index finger of the same hand change basic settings quickly, so the decisive moment doesn't slip away.

If you introduce your other hand to fiddle with dials, you lose balance and the level of engagement into the scene immediately. Therefore the mode dial on top, that sets one variable to oscillate, and other two to be controlled with two fingers / wheels.

One solution to introduce your other hand to control parameters and increase stability of the whole system is to have an aperture ring on the lens to control the aperture but even then your brain cannot process three simultaneous data inputs; two, barely.

For all those reasons a good, medium sized DSLR that fits nicely in hand and has substantial enough weight is in fact the most advanced, most stabile, highly evolved photography capturing device.


Last edited by Uluru; 06-07-2013 at 03:13 PM.
06-07-2013, 03:34 PM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
I really like TAV mode, and use it most of the time. However, I've always wondered why no one at all has introduced a camera with three dials... one for aperture, one for shutter, and one for ISO. Spin to adjust, press to make automatic.
I understand why this seems appealing. However, after I give it time to digest it almost comes across as a solution in search of a problem. Let's remember we have a camera that allows us to do the following with their own mode setting on the top dial:

Fix the shutter speed
Fix the aperture
Fix the shutter speed and aperture
Fix the ISO
Fix the shutter speed, aperture, and ISO

The last, M mode, is probably used quite infrequently as a percentage of total shots by the sum of Pentax DSLR owners. Access to ISO adjustment in M mode is drop-dead simple -- hit the ISO button and the rear dial becomes active for the ISO setting, visible on both the LCD and viewfinder. Hit it again and it's back to the normal dual-wheel controls. My opinion only, of course, but I don't think I need a third control for that rare occurrence when the work around is so easy.
06-07-2013, 03:46 PM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Pentax announcement on or around Thursday, June 13th.
I haven't seen any nibbles on this particular claim. Have most people missed it, or is it being selectively ignored?

Curious as to whether it holds any water, or just another sh*t-stir!
06-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
I haven't seen any nibbles on this particular claim. Have most people missed it, or is it being selectively ignored?
We have seen so many predicted dates that they don't even register any more. I'll believe it when I see an official Pentax press release. That's the same day I'll believe there is something called a k-50 or maybe I'll wait a day or so after that... /shrug
06-07-2013, 04:53 PM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Aperture!
Shutter speed!
ISO!
Exposure comp!
And, of course, uhhh, let's see here . . . OK, why not go with focus fine-tuning!

Five dials! One for each finger -- no need to move your hand to search for buttons!
You do realize that moving the "Exposure comp" just moved one of the preceding 3, ISO, aperture so shutter speed?

Right?

On older film cameras there was no EV. You changed the ISO. By second guessing the metered exposure you had no choice if you wanted to keep the Tv an Av.

TAv mode simply allows you to let the ISO adjust automatically. With TAv you pretty much should not need EV. Kind of redundant.

I think what many people would like is the capacity to set a minimum shutter speed. I can do that on my Hexar AF and could do that on the Pentax MZ-S. Those cameras will not shoot if the minimum shutter speed is not feasible.
06-07-2013, 05:35 PM   #358
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Meh, my wish for an exposure mode is Av with the front dial set to MinTv (like the auto-ISO slow, med, fast, but finer tunable); now to me, that would be perfect for 99% of my shooting.

On the K-50, I like that they fixed the hump to support wider base lenses, and sure an incremental change, but I' call it K-30II.
06-07-2013, 05:58 PM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote



You've been reading too much forum hype. As per DXOMark, the K-5 noise performance betters the K-7 by one stop over most of its range, extending to 1.2 stops at ISO 6400.

I owned a K-5 and K20D. There was one stop difference in my tests and as everyone knows, the K20D betters the K-7 by 1/3 stop.
Nope, the ISO improvement from K20D to K-5 was just under three stops. Nothing to do with "Forum Hype" dude, but actually to do with owning both cameras ( and at the same time for quite a while ). You must have had a defective K-5 if you only got one stop improvement. I have had THREE K-5's ( I still own two of them ) and ALL THREE exhibited a near 3 stop increase in ISO performance over the K-20D. It was a distinctive joy shooting at say ISO6400 with the K-5 and getting near as little noise I got with ISO800 on the K-20D.

Even the DXO measurements almost back up my real world experience ( showing nearly 3 stops @ ISO100 ), although I claim better performance on my models at higher ISOs.than they do.

K-5 v. K-20D - see Dynamic Range Tab

Last edited by Smeggypants; 06-07-2013 at 06:08 PM.
06-07-2013, 07:19 PM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I know you're being sarcastic, but honestly, you can take photos that are good with any of these cameras. Some are pretty crippled in some respects. The Canon cameras I wouldn't particularly recommend unless video is your thing. But unfortunately, people buy based on specs (16 megapixels versus 18 megapixels versus 24 megapixels) and don't really look any further than that.

I find it irritating when people look at my photos and first comment is "Oh, you must have a nice camera," followed by the question: "how many megapixels does it have?"
The number of megapixels is a main selling point for cameras. It is one of the few specs which are drilled into the minds of the general public and the only thing they know.
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