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06-25-2013, 12:35 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The Great Leap Forward, perhaps?
Or in this way...

06-25-2013, 01:35 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Should I get a lawyer to check all my posts? Or use a mathematical-like language that cannot be possibly misinterpreted (though, nobody would understand it)? "Again" refers to the complainers.
...And you're the one accusing others of not being able to detect reactions that are intended to be funny. That's magic.
06-25-2013, 02:57 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
The Great Leap Forward, perhaps?
Don't listen to that, it's a diversion There will be no "great leap forwards", that would be impossible; but good things are coming.
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
...And you're the one accusing others of not being able to detect reactions that are intended to be funny. That's magic.
I guess if the intention was there but the result wasn't funny, I cannot detect it. You're strongly advised to use emoticons to convey intentions, like this:
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nah. Just another pointless slogan.

Pentax is merely playing catching up with others now. They have fallen behind not only in delivery of class leading anything, but even in strategic thinking. I mean, not to have a contingency FF plan of any kind, even during the Photokina 2012, which was 16 months after the announcement of acquisition?! 16 months later, it's Photokina 2012, and they had no FF plans of any kind, for any future product?! I still cannot believe it, but Pentax admitted it. See the clip:

Pentax on Full-Frame Development: CP+ 2013 Interview Clip - YouTube

So you see, in real life that slogan above means — "Give us another 3-4 years to be on the same level of freshness as others. Then after 5-6 years, we can do something more substantial". In the meantime, throw in more colours.
Are you afraid they might actually have a plan?

Why are you counting well before Pentax Ricoh was actually founded (and let's not forget that corrective actions can't be made from day one)? It's just like you can't find real reasons to complain, so you're making them up

By the way, in that youtube video we can see a high ranked Pentax official saying "I think we should make them" and "now many people are open to the idea of making full frame cameras"; yet you're "translating" this as Pentax admitting to not having FF plans "for any future product". Making then up some "milestones". You are an expert of distorting whatever Pentax says and does to reflect your own negativity.
06-25-2013, 03:24 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, in that youtube video we can see a high ranked Pentax official saying "I think we should make them" and "now many people are open to the idea of making full frame cameras"; yet you're "translating" this as Pentax admitting to not having FF plans "for any future product". Making then up some "milestones". You are an expert of distorting whatever Pentax says and does to reflect your own negativity.
You are right. In that video they very reluctantly admitted that they think they should make an FF camera some time. Wooptiedoo, lets have a party! With that statement, they solidly confirmed that there has not been the slightest developement in the FF direction at the time of recording that video. Which is, of course, disappointing, because all the Pentaxian that are longing for FF had the false hopes that FF was being developed secretly and silently.

06-25-2013, 03:31 AM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
..

By the way, in that youtube video we can see a high ranked Pentax official saying "I think we should make them" and "now many people are open to the idea of making full frame cameras"; yet you're "translating" this as Pentax admitting to not having FF plans "for any future product". Making then up some "milestones". You are an expert of distorting whatever Pentax says and does to reflect your own negativity.
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The translation is not entirely accurate on that one; in this video below, which is more comprehensive, the left guy says in short: "Before the Photokina, even I had doubts whether we'll make FF cameras, but after the Photokina, I think we have to" … FYI, the left guy is the System Camera Development Manager at Pentax. He manages all K-mount, Q-mount, and 645-mount camera development. So if he wasn't sure about FF, there was no FF action before the Photokina. Which also corresponds to Frank Lumo's own common sense conclusions from the Photokina 2012, and what I was writing about on several occasions too.

I'm not negative Kunzite, I rely on claims by officials and shown evidence so far; only you unfortunately sound like a cheerleader who doesn't investigate facts enough, and not at all.

And if you want an even more shocking conclusion which can be drawn from information in this interview and the post-Photokina consequences — before the Photokina and during the Photokina, Pentax Ricoh did not have any firm strategic plan at all. I think that they were merely window shopping during the Photokina to see where others will go, and only then decided to act strategically. Overall lack of energy in their Photokina booth, absence of mind and indistinctness that bordered with rudeness during the interview for Pentax Forums and Pentaxeros may describe that attitude as well.

Thus that wild claim "Ricoh has a plan ..." sounds hollow if not totally childish, because they may have coined some plan in months after the Photokina, but nothing firm before that (which is most interesting for us because now it could materialise soon enough).

That also means that whatever new and exciting Pentax Ricoh may deliver, all that Pentax users in PF have dreamt about, will hardly materialise before the early to mid 2014. Even then, others that Pentax is trying to catch up with ... well, what do we think, that they shall sit and enrol knitting classes while waiting for Pentax to move them from their well earned market position?


Last edited by Uluru; 06-25-2013 at 05:12 AM.
06-25-2013, 05:28 AM - 3 Likes   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
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Thus that wild claim "Ricoh has a plan ..." sounds hollow if not totally childish, because they may have coined some plan in months after the Photokina, but nothing firm before that (which is most interesting for us because now it could materialise soon enough).
Huh? Wild claim? No one is going to buy a camera manufacturer without having a plan of what you want to do with it.
Whats naive though is believeing they will actuall tell what that plan is...
06-25-2013, 06:02 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The translation is not entirely accurate on that one; in this video below, which is more comprehensive, the left guy says in short: "Before the Photokina, even I had doubts whether we'll make FF cameras, but after the Photokina, I think we have to" … FYI, the left guy is the System Camera Manager at Pentax. He manages all K-mount, Q-mount, and 645-mount camera development. So if he wasn't sure about FF, there was no FF action before the Photokina. Which also corresponds to Frank Lumo's own common sense conclusions from the Photokina 2012, and what I was writing about on several occasions too.
Too vague. What's a "FF action"? What does it means, to make FF cameras? What does it means, to think they have to do it?
You're oversimplifying things and distort them so they'll suit your already-made conclusions.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I'm not negative Kunzite, I rely on claims by officials and shown evidence so far; only you sound like a cheerleader who doesn't investigate facts enough, and not at all.
For those who thinks the sky is falling, no wonder being realistic equates to "cheer-leading". It also appears you pay little attention to what I'm writing, and you'd certainly have a difficult time properly quoting some of my supposed mistakes, and the proper facts which I supposedly missed.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
And if you want an even more shocking conclusion which can be drawn from information in this interview and the post-Photokina consequences — before the Photokina and during the Photokina, Pentax Ricoh did not have any firm strategic plan at all.
Wait, what? You're extending the "no plans to launch a FF" to the entire camera business? You're claiming that Ricoh bought Pentax without having any clue what to do with them?

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Thus that wild claim "Ricoh has a plan ..." sounds hollow if not totally childish, because they may have coined some plan in months after the Photokina, but nothing firm before that (which is most interesting for us because now it could materialise soon enough).
It's no wild claim, and it's not childish either.
Pentax indeed have plans, and from time to time they would give us some details. For example, when they said they are planning to double the sales. Or when they said they were working with the marketing to make the FF a viable solution.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That also means that whatever new and exciting Pentax Ricoh may deliver, all that Pentax users in PF have dreamt about, will hardly materialise before the early to mid 2014.
It largely depends on how you define "new and exciting", but you're wrong.

Last edited by Kunzite; 06-25-2013 at 07:29 AM.
06-25-2013, 06:36 AM - 3 Likes   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
And if you want an even more shocking conclusion which can be drawn from information in this interview and the post-Photokina consequences — before the Photokina and during the Photokina, Pentax Ricoh did not have any firm strategic plan at all. I think that they were merely window shopping during the Photokina to see where others will go, and only then decided to act strategically. Overall lack of energy in their Photokina booth, absence of mind and indistinctness that bordered with rudeness during the interview for Pentax Forums and Pentaxeros may describe that attitude as well.
I can think of three good reasons not to reveal their mid-/long-term plans in that interview.
- Not wishing to undermine the sales of the K-5 II, which had just been released
- Not wishing to reveal their plans to their competitors. This business is highly competitive, just look at the Nikon A and Ricoh GR being released within a couple of months of each other.
- They have made the mistake of showing a prototype FF DSLR at a trade show before, and it caused them no end of embarrassment when they failed to bring it to market. I'm sure they are resolved not to make that mistake again.

I don't see any rudeness in that interview. Pretty much all the questions were fishing for information about future products. They can't suddenly decide to reveal that, so they had to say "no comment" to everything, which is "under consideration" in Japanese. It doesn't mean that don't have any plans. It just means they aren't ready to share them.

06-25-2013, 07:30 AM   #54
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Thank you for making so much sense.
06-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
I can think of three good reasons not to reveal their mid-/long-term plans in that interview.
- Not wishing to undermine the sales of the K-5 II, which had just been released
- Not wishing to reveal their plans to their competitors. This business is highly competitive, just look at the Nikon A and Ricoh GR being released within a couple of months of each other.
- They have made the mistake of showing a prototype FF DSLR at a trade show before, and it caused them no end of embarrassment when they failed to bring it to market. I'm sure they are resolved not to make that mistake again.
1. K-5II is not top APS-C. It has minor tweaks. It's the same as Nikon D300 and Nikon D300s.
2. Pentax has no competitors. Try to realize it.
3. It was 13 years ago. Only handful of Pentax fans remember this fact.

Your arguments are far from real truth. Pure fantasy. The reality is in another plane. The main reasons are economic and nothing else.
The member Kunzite has been trying to support the myths about Pentax for many years at this forum. Why? Hard to say.
I guess it could be self-expression, marketing work for Pentax, keeping self-importance or struggle with inferiority complex at this forum.
To have inclination for photo brand is close to religious bent.

Last edited by Bunny Gear; 06-25-2013 at 09:04 AM.
06-25-2013, 08:20 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Thank you for making so much sense.
You want to say so much NONsense.
06-25-2013, 08:23 AM   #57
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I'm eager to see a Pentax camera that is on the level with Pentax K50, mirrorless, and weather sealed. That's just me.
06-25-2013, 08:32 AM   #58
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Bunny Gear, do you have even one positive post about Pentax, I wonder?

1. Irrelevant. Regardless if the K-5 II(s) is or not a tweaked K-5, its sales could suffer if e.g. some new APS-C flagship would be announced months before its launch date. Google "Osborne effect".
2. Hmm... are you saying Pentax is alone on the DSLR market? That they have a monopoly?
3. 645D. 60-250 f/4. 1.4x RC.

By the way, can you tell us at least one "myth" that I supposedly supported? With exact quotes from my own posts. Thank you, Mr. Professional Complainer.
06-25-2013, 08:56 AM - 3 Likes   #59
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On other brand dedicated sites people who are too negative about the brand are dismissed as saboteurs or secret spies for the 'other' brand.

On this forum anyone who says anything positive about Pentax is hounded as either doing marketing for Pentax, being deluded or simply misinformed.

Why is that? I can see arguing about Pentax and where they are. I can see hoping for new cameras or lenses. I can see discussing what we think Pentax should be doing.

But I just do not understand the total negativity about anything Pentax related. If you hate the brand and company that much why are you still posting here? Certainly Pentax has faults but why is even the slightest positive statement immediately attacked?

Not trying to start (more) arguments, I am genuinely curious about the reasons. So if anyone cares to answer, why all the negativity?
06-25-2013, 09:27 AM   #60
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I try to stay positive regarding the future of the Pentax Ricoh company! With the know-how from Pentax, and the money from Ricoh, the future just might look pretty bright. At least, I hope so.
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