Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-28-2013, 08:30 AM   #106
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,186
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Say, the new GR is a total overhaul of the old GR digital. I don't doubt even for a second that the new GR would be impossible to accomplish for Ricoh without some significant help from Pentax. In fact, I can go so far and say that the new GR is Pentax's child, only bearing Ricoh's name and software. So I know for sure that Pentax has worked hard on the new GR during the last 12-18 months. The exam passed with flying colours.
So Ricoh is supposedly stealing resources from Pentax, is it? I don't see any evidence to support that and a lot to the contrary.

Pentax released 12 cameras in 2012 and has released 10 in 2013 so far. By contrast, in 2012 Ricoh released one GXR unit (delayed from 2011) and the GR in 2013. In the meantime, they seem to have dropped their PX-, CX- and GX-series and the GXR looks very quiet too. Also interesting that the MX-1 saw the Pentax brand extend right into Ricoh's traditional territory.

There is no way the GR was designed by Pentax. The controls and firmware are completely different from anything Pentax has made. I don't know where you got the idea that the lens has SMC - it isn't mentioned on the lens or any marketing materials. Since Ricoh has been making these cameras for years and made the similar APS-C GXR 28 module, I find it completely believable that they could develop this without Pentax's help.

Ricoh mentioned in an interview last December, that the Ricoh development team is still based in Yokohama and is separate from the Pentax facility in north Tokyo. But, the guy interviewed also said they were working together. You can see this in minor details like the TAv mode on the GR, but just look at the differences in the way focus peaking works and the general user interface.

I'm also eager to see some new high-end Pentax stuff, especially lenses. I'm optimistic and think the fact that they're taking their time means that the improvements are going to be significant. Just wait till September. Nikon is expected to release the D400 around then and I bet Pentax's camera will have the same sensor in it and come out around the same time.

06-28-2013, 08:48 AM - 2 Likes   #107
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area)
Posts: 1,464
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But what product, originally designed by Pentax, was worked on so diligently and improved upon? None so far. K50 is repacked K30 done under Hoya, it's almost the same camera. K5II is repacked K5. Q7 is almost same as Q10. Pentax's 18-135 repacked Tamron.

Pentax's own core products (DSLRs) get a facelift, but Ricoh's product get a ground up rethinking. Starting from much more refined and humanised touches to the handling of camera, to the GR lens, which has magnificent Pentax SMC coating.
Let's assume Ricoh's board and management decided to get serious about the camera market in 2011, and this is what led to the Pentax acquisition.

The moment that decision was made, in early 2011 (or earlier!), they could have assigned a development team to get working on the GR.

Meanwhile, with the Pentax acquisition, even though they were already very serious about the market, ready to dedicate resources to making it happen, and even though the acquisition was announced early in 2011, they could not start real collaboration until the transaction closed in October 2011. And then there was the minor matter of the transition and integration.

Patience!
06-28-2013, 08:59 AM   #108
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 63
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Let's assume Ricoh's board and management decided to get serious about the camera market in 2011, and this is what led to the Pentax acquisition.

The moment that decision was made, in early 2011 (or earlier!), they could have assigned a development team to get working on the GR.

Meanwhile, with the Pentax acquisition, even though they were already very serious about the market, ready to dedicate resources to making it happen, and even though the acquisition was announced early in 2011, they could not start real collaboration until the transaction closed in October 2011. And then there was the minor matter of the transition and integration.

Patience!
Hear, hear!
06-28-2013, 09:10 AM   #109
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,422
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
So Ricoh is supposedly stealing resources from Pentax, is it? I don't see any evidence to support that and a lot to the contrary.
I remember reading on this forum that launching both the K-50 and the K-500 was made possible by Ricoh putting in more resources.

L.E. Wait... just read the first post of this thread.


Last edited by Kunzite; 06-28-2013 at 09:41 AM.
06-28-2013, 10:53 AM   #110
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,951
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Or let's put it bluntly like this:

Pentax can find priorities, ways, and reasons, and time and avoid excuses to squeeze in a 9 times bigger APS-C sensor in a pocket camera to revamp it completely and excite its customers, but (!) Pentax cannot find priorities, ways, reasons, and time and avoid excuses to squeeze in an FF sensor in an already big DSLR to revamp it completely and excite its customers?

Gimme a break!
But, I don't see how that fixes the issues with distribution, or am I reading your other quotes wrong here?

I am fine with full frame and do believe we will see it the beginning of next year, but I don't believe that sticking a full frame sensor in a K5 II body is the answer or, that issues with camera availability in Australia and the United States will be changed by such a release.
06-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #111
Pentaxian
Uluru's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,400
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
So Ricoh is supposedly stealing resources from Pentax, is it? I don't see any evidence to support that and a lot to the contrary.
I'm not saying "stealing resources", but I'm saying that Ricoh has managed to excite its loyal users. We're still waiting for Pentax to excite their loyal users. However, as the list of things users have been adding to is rather long, I believe that if they have shown that they have addressed some of them would be better than waiting all this long.


QuoteQuote:
Pentax released 12 cameras in 2012 and has released 10 in 2013 so far.
You mean numbers of units shipped? Yes, only 10 units of GR came in the first shipment to Australia.

QuoteQuote:
Also interesting that the MX-1 saw the Pentax brand extend right into Ricoh's traditional territory.
Ricoh's traditional territory were never advanced compacts like Panasonic LX, Oly XZ-series, Leica D-LUX, Samsung EX, etc.

QuoteQuote:
I'm also eager to see some new high-end Pentax stuff, especially lenses. I'm optimistic and think the fact that they're taking their time means that the improvements are going to be significant. Just wait till September. Nikon is expected to release the D400 around then and I bet Pentax's camera will have the same sensor in it and come out around the same time.
Nikon has D7100 and, apparently all new D400 two premium APS-C bodies. So do we expect Pentax still to have one body on the level of D7100, like it was with K5? And absolutely no answer to D400, D600, D800, etc.

That move could be done without Ricoh's help at all! And it doesn't change the fact that Pentax has not changed anything strategically re its own core camera business. It's same old tune of playing catching up now because of Ricoh too.

That Ricoh means serious business I'll see only if Pentax releases two new APS-C DSLRs this September. If they come with just one replacement for K5II, then it's same as before.
06-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #112
Pentaxian
Uluru's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,400
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
So Ricoh is supposedly stealing resources from Pentax, is it? I don't see any evidence to support that and a lot to the contrary.
I'm not saying "stealing resources", but I'm saying that Ricoh has managed to excite its loyal users. We're still waiting for Pentax to excite their loyal users. However, as the list of things users have been adding to is rather long, I believe that if they have shown that they have addressed some of them would be better than waiting all this long.


QuoteQuote:
Pentax released 12 cameras in 2012 and has released 10 in 2013 so far.
You mean numbers of units shipped? Yes, only 10 units of GR came in the first shipment to Australia.

QuoteQuote:
Also interesting that the MX-1 saw the Pentax brand extend right into Ricoh's traditional territory.
Ricoh's traditional territory were never advanced compacts like Panasonic LX, Oly XZ-series, Leica D-LUX, Samsung EX, etc.

QuoteQuote:
I'm also eager to see some new high-end Pentax stuff, especially lenses. I'm optimistic and think the fact that they're taking their time means that the improvements are going to be significant. Just wait till September. Nikon is expected to release the D400 around then and I bet Pentax's camera will have the same sensor in it and come out around the same time.
Nikon has new D7100 and, apparently all new D400 coming — two premium APS-C bodies. So do we expect Pentax still to have one body on the level of D7100, like it was with K5 and D7000? And absolutely no answer to D400, D600, D800, etc.?

That move could be done without Ricoh's help. And it doesn't change the fact that Pentax has not changed anything strategically re its own core camera business. It's same old tune of playing catching up — but now because of Ricoh too because they have delayed them too.

That Ricoh means serious business I'll see only if Pentax releases two new APS-C DSLRs this September — a substitute for K5II and an all new APS-C body, totally pro. If they come with just one replacement for the K5II, then it's same as before.

That is my basic point in all these posts above — everything we've seen so far Pentax could have done without Ricoh. Same competent little camera, but same lame marketing, same lame distribution, poor shelf presence, etc.

I still need to be convinced that Ricoh means business with Pentax and that Pentax really wants to excite its loyal users. Excitement comes from unprecedented things, from total surprises.

So far, Pentax does not have even a due answer to D7100, thus what to speak about everything else above, or god forbid, something excitingly unprecedented ... All we've seen is that Ricoh has interrupted even Pentax's regular flow of work, which didn't occur when Hoya has bought Pentax.

Last edited by Uluru; 06-28-2013 at 03:59 PM.
06-28-2013, 03:57 PM   #113
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,474
You might be surprised soon.

Read This

06-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #114
Pentaxian
Uluru's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,400
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You might be surprised soon.

Read This


This made my day. Thank you.
06-28-2013, 06:31 PM   #115
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,186
Nobody knows what would have happened without Ricoh. If Hoya hadn't managed to sell Pentax, they might have downsized them by now and they might not have been able to even develop replacement models. The other company mentioned as a possible buyer was JVC and I wouldn't feel very confident with them as the owners.

It probably comes across as cold comfort if Pentax has no store presence in your country, but in Japan there have been huge advertising campaigns since Ricoh took over and salespeople in stores are actively pushing the brand. At the same time, Pentax has produced three models this year specifically for overseas markets - the Efina, MX-1 and the K-500. The MX-1 is available now in Japan, but it was 3 months later and only the black model. They are also having launch events in the US rather than Japan. So, I think they are taking markets outside Japan seriously, because they are making specific products to target them.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
two new APS-C DSLRs
I agree with this. There is definitely space for two cameras above the K-50. Then they would have:
Budget: (for some markets) - K-500
Entry: K-50
Mid-range: K-5 (and successors)
High-end: K-? (Nikon D400 and Canon 7D II competitor)

That looks like a rational line-up to me and September isn't that far away.
06-29-2013, 01:30 AM   #116
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,422
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I'm not saying "stealing resources", but I'm saying that Ricoh has managed to excite its loyal users. We're still waiting for Pentax to excite their loyal users.
Wrong. Pentax Ricoh did the GR.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
You mean numbers of units shipped? Yes, only 10 units of GR came in the first shipment to Australia.
Why do you insist in taking such an unreasonable stance?

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nikon has D7100 and, apparently all new D400 two premium APS-C bodies. So do we expect Pentax still to have one body on the level of D7100, like it was with K5? And absolutely no answer to D400, D600, D800, etc.
Wrong; Nikon doesn't have any D400. What Nikon has is the old D300s, which is a minor evolution of an even older camera.
And wrong again; even with unlimited founding, IMHO it would've been impossible to match Nikon's non-pro range in such a short timeframe. And they don't have unlimited founding, they're even expected to be profitable.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That Ricoh means serious business I'll see only if Pentax releases two new APS-C DSLRs this September. If they come with just one replacement for K5II, then it's same as before.
Would that be "one iota"? And what if it'll be a single, really good DSLR?
06-29-2013, 01:58 AM - 1 Like   #117
Pentaxian
mecrox's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,912
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Nobody knows what would have happened without Ricoh. If Hoya hadn't managed to sell Pentax, they might have downsized them by now and they might not have been able to even develop replacement models. The other company mentioned as a possible buyer was JVC and I wouldn't feel very confident with them as the owners.

It probably comes across as cold comfort if Pentax has no store presence in your country, but in Japan there have been huge advertising campaigns since Ricoh took over and salespeople in stores are actively pushing the brand. At the same time, Pentax has produced three models this year specifically for overseas markets - the Efina, MX-1 and the K-500. The MX-1 is available now in Japan, but it was 3 months later and only the black model. They are also having launch events in the US rather than Japan. So, I think they are taking markets outside Japan seriously, because they are making specific products to target them.

I agree with this. There is definitely space for two cameras above the K-50. Then they would have:
Budget: (for some markets) - K-500
Entry: K-50
Mid-range: K-5 (and successors)
High-end: K-? (Nikon D400 and Canon 7D II competitor)

That looks like a rational line-up to me and September isn't that far away.
Name me a country outside Japan where Pentax does have "store presence". That's the size of the challenge in front of them, I'd guess. it's a very substantial one and not easy given the state of B&M generally in the West, with huge retail chains either tottering or filing for bankruptcy. It's also a challenge because the kind of product range/mix a company might have will be influenced by whether those products are predicated on sales in a store (Japan) or online (the West). For example, if almost all your senior staff are Japanese, living in Japan and cruising by Pentax-stocked stores and Ricoh billboards on a regular basis, then overall your company's culture might easily acquire a pretty distorted view of how Pentax is really doing out there in the bigger, wider world.

It will be interesting to see whether Pentax produce one or two new models at the higher end of APS-C. If two, perhaps an indication that they see no great hurry over FF; if one, then it may suggest FF is not far away. (I have no personal interest in an FF DSLR, I'm just market-watching.)
06-29-2013, 04:13 AM   #118
Pentaxian
Uluru's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,400
QuoteQuote:
The MX-1 is available now in Japan, but it was 3 months later and only the black model. They are also having launch events in the US rather than Japan. So, I think they are taking markets outside Japan seriously, because they are making specific products to target them.
Correct me if Im wrong, but it seems MX-1 started to sell in Japan after the April 1st. Which means, they have waited for the beginning of their financial year.
GR was introduced in April too, in the new financial year. Then K50, Q7, etc.
So I believe they started like that by design, considering that they have already booked in all expenses (I presume R&D cost for MX-1 etc. too) for the last financial year ending in March.
A clean slate for the Japanese financial 2013 for some products and without doubt, they want to show in their next financial report in 2014 how things have fared and progressed. If they are interested in growth and show profit for 2013, this what they have introduced may be fine for a while, but not enough to receive stronger attention. I believe they need one or two big announcements by the end of Ocober at latest, something that sets the greater value and the serious tone of voice for the entire offer now available, top to bottom.
06-29-2013, 07:12 AM   #119
Site Supporter
Biro's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,159
QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Let's assume Ricoh's board and management decided to get serious about the camera market in 2011, and this is what led to the Pentax acquisition.

The moment that decision was made, in early 2011 (or earlier!), they could have assigned a development team to get working on the GR.

Meanwhile, with the Pentax acquisition, even though they were already very serious about the market, ready to dedicate resources to making it happen, and even though the acquisition was announced early in 2011, they could not start real collaboration until the transaction closed in October 2011. And then there was the minor matter of the transition and integration.

Patience!
Thank you! I have posted similar thoughts a number of times. I often feel like a tiny voice in the wind. But what you say is true. These things take time and quite a few of our fellow forum membrs are quite naive about this. I don't mean this statement to be a flame in any way. But even in 2013, corporate integration and product development aren't as fast and easy as many apparently believe.
06-29-2013, 07:21 AM   #120
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Posts: 545
QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Thank you! I have posted similar thoughts a number of times. I often feel like a tiny voice in the wind. But what you say is true. These things take time and quite a few of our fellow forum membrs are quite naive about this. I don't mean this statement to be a flame in any way. But even in 2013, corporate integration and product development aren't as fast and easy as many apparently believe.
Surprisingly, Pentax has a good storefront presence in Canada. In major cities, all major camera stores sell Pentax, However, in electronic stores like BestBuy, Pentax is left out. In spite of this, I hardly ever see another Pentax camera while shooting in Canada. Ricoh needs to do something unique to increase the brand awareness. So far, Pentax is lagging behind in new technologies like Wifi that could attract the younger generation.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
av, fall, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, photo, products, ricoh
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Countdown to the Upcoming new Pentax products. i83N Pentax News and Rumors 21 03-25-2013 07:47 AM
PENTAX Demonstrates Host of New Products At PhotoPlus Expo 2012 bobell69 Pentax News and Rumors 33 10-29-2012 09:37 AM
Marketing the new Pentax Products ramseybuckeye Pentax News and Rumors 38 06-04-2012 07:29 AM
"Pentax hints at new DSLR camera" - AmPhoto article Jean Poitiers Pentax News and Rumors 12 02-05-2012 03:47 PM
Pentax products at Photokina - disappointment or admiration? ogl Pentax News and Rumors 252 10-29-2008 07:33 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:50 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top