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06-14-2013, 01:16 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
You already got the answer from Falk Lumo to this post. Try to remember it.
Get some manners, please. IGNORED now.

Falk may be a great wiz of an engineer but he is not G*d nor is he omniscient about sales, marketing, or many other things. He's wrong about where profit comes from and he's wrong about sales - at least I disagree with him after reading for myself.

06-14-2013, 01:29 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Canon 1100D is the best seller. With price 350 USD for body and 430 USD for kit.

If Pentax is so good, why DSLR market share of Pentax is not above 5%.
It means - 95 customers will choose Canon, Nikon or Sony. And only 5 - Pentax.
Because most never bothers to make a educated choice, they just follow what everybody else does and buy the most expensive camera they think they afford. it's also hard to find Pentax in stores. But I believe that quite many that make a research before they buy will end up with Pentax DSLR, unless their highest priority is video or they must have fastest possible AF.

Canon 1100D must be one of the worst DSLR on the market, and is basically a stripped down 450D which was released in 2008.

Last edited by Fogel70; 06-14-2013 at 01:37 PM.
06-14-2013, 01:35 PM - 2 Likes   #33
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The best sellers till 1000USD will be mirrorless cameras, Canon and Nikon DSLR, but Pentax - never. Let Pentax cameras have better specs. Nobody care about it.
Nobody know about it.

The problem is not engineers or designers of Pentax...or pure marketing work.

The problem is in failure of Pentax system of distributors, price policy, service and advertising.

But there are objective reasons of it.

K-50 and K-500 can't change market situation (it's impossible), it just help Pentax to stay in the saddle.

Come down to earth, guys!

Last edited by ogl; 06-14-2013 at 01:43 PM.
06-14-2013, 01:59 PM - 1 Like   #34
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No visible AF points is not an immediate issue for folks who haven't used a DSLR before. They won't notice it as a missing feature. It also does not stop people taking sharp photos.

But it seems silly to drop it, for several reasons. It is a feature competitors have; it must only cost a dollar to implement; it will generate bad reviews, and it will make the camera lose out on a few consumer check-lists. The fact that they aren't doing this for the Japanese market is also telling - it means the K-500 is regarded by Pentax HQ as a 'monkey machine', to borrow a military procurement term for the old junk vendors export to less developed countries.

Personally I don't really care - the lack of AF points never bothers me on the K-x. But it won't play well in the marketplace.

06-14-2013, 02:04 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
No visible AF points is not an immediate issue for folks who haven't used a DSLR before. They won't notice it as a missing feature. It also does not stop people taking sharp photos.

But it seems silly to drop it, for several reasons. It is a feature competitors have; it must only cost a dollar to implement; it will generate bad reviews, and it will make the camera lose out on a few consumer check-lists. The fact that they aren't doing this for the Japanese market is also telling - it means the K-500 is regarded by Pentax HQ as a 'monkey machine', to borrow a military procurement term for the old junk vendors export to less developed countries.

Personally I don't really care - the lack of AF points never bothers me on the K-x. But it won't play well in the marketplace.
If it doesn't play well they will pull a K-x to K-r transformation. At this stage, it makes for a clear difference between the entry, mid, and prosumer models for sale though.
06-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
If it doesn't play well they will pull a K-x to K-r transformation. At this stage, it makes for a clear difference between the entry, mid, and prosumer models for sale though.
Or maybe they have the hardware in place, and can activate it in firmware if needed.
06-14-2013, 02:13 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The problem is not engineers or designers of Pentax...or pure marketing work.
The problem is in failure of Pentax system of distributors, price policy, service and advertising.
I tend to agree. We focus on the product(s), but behind the product sit other hugely important systems of marketing, distribution, support etc. Part of the reason Canon and Nikon dominate is that they have an awesome global infrastructure in place to do all that, which Pentax don't. Eg where is Pentax in Latin America? Or India even? So world domination is a long way away for Ricoh/Pentax.

But what Pentax is doing is only a 'failure' if success is defined as having the same sort of market share, or product sector dominance, as the big guys. However I'm not sure Ricoh really wants to (or needs to) 'beat' Canikon at anything. They just have to stake out a respectable and profitable place in the marketplace - and one that can ensure their long-term viability during this difficult time for the digital imaging marketplace. To do that in a smart, modest and profitable way won't mean 'failure'.
06-14-2013, 02:16 PM   #38
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I find such words encouraging. If Pentax managed to survive and launch excellent (even if sometimes buggy) products while failing, what can they do when they'll stop failing?
World domination might not be far off

06-14-2013, 02:16 PM   #39
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Well they don't expect Japanese market to wait for a cheaper camera, but in Europe it is a hot item. But then again it has to be competative in price.
06-14-2013, 02:26 PM   #40
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Let's not forget that Pentax Ricoh is a new company, they're just getting started. They cannot be held accountable for Hoya's policies and lack of interest in Pentax imaging division.

The camera market is in flux. There's room for Pentax to grow into new markets, Filling out the bottom end of the DSLR line is a great start. Now they need to add a MILC, a pro-level APS-C DSLR and a FF and more lenses.

Roger Cicala is predicting that some players will exit by 2018, and Pentax is not expected to be among the casualties. Pentax is doing fine IMO and these cameras will help, not hurt their chances.
Looking into the Future: Whose Camera Will I Buy in 2018?
06-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #41
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Do most entry-level camera owners even notice their AF points? It seems that every week here on PF, someone is asking about focus problems, and usually the answer is, "center point, focus and recompose".

With the limits of the current Pentax AF, even enthusiasts probably just stick to the center AF point, 95% of the time. MF doesn't count.
06-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
With the limits of the current Pentax AF, even enthusiasts probably just stick to the center AF point, 95% of the time. MF doesn't count.
Actually 80% here use CF&R according to a poll a couple of years ago. I don't think that is due to any Pentax AF issue, it's just a good way to shoot. I would never use Auto AF and have the camera guess where I want to focus. Select AF is not worth the trouble. When I can't use CF&R, I use MF.
06-14-2013, 02:46 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tanzer Quote
Do most entry-level camera owners even notice their AF points? It seems that every week here on PF, someone is asking about focus problems, and usually the answer is, "center point, focus and recompose".

With the limits of the current Pentax AF, even enthusiasts probably just stick to the center AF point, 95% of the time. MF doesn't count.
Then why did Pentax put an 11-point AF system in there?

Also, focus and recompose is not always the solution. Ever done it with a wide lens, up close to your subject? If you have, you know the usefulness of additional focus points.

I almost always use focus and recompose in addition to manually selecting a focus point. With longer lengths I don't bother changing that from the center point. But like I said, with shorter lengths, up close? Hell yeah, I chose the closest point possible. I want precise focus. Otherwise, what's the point of spending so much money on a camera?
06-14-2013, 03:29 PM   #44
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Now that Pentax has launched these two new lower end cameras, what they need now is a distribution network to kick them out the door. I won't believe any of the hype until I see stacks of Pentax kits in Costco, Future Shop, Walmart etc.
06-14-2013, 03:36 PM   #45
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Lack of visible AF point is really shame. They shouldn't have done that. As someone else pointed out, may be the hardware is present and it can be fixed by a firmware update before release.

The marketing wizards at Pentax must have been thinking like: K-x with no visible AF point - HIT, K-r with visible AF point FLOP, let's get rid of it .
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