Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-14-2013, 03:55 PM   #46
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA
Posts: 1,535
I think it should be remembered that the LED AF point indicators do not indicate focus confirmation. The green LCD hexagon at the bottom of the VF screen is the focus lock indicator. The red LED square also does not even come close to indicating the size of the AF sensor area. These are both points of significant confusion for a whole lot of folks.

After everything is said and done, probably a great majority of DSLR shooters end up using center point focusing, and even for those who want to manually select their focus point, with 11 focus points, it's not terribly challenging to keep track of the focus point used when any point is only two button presses away from center and center can be regained with a press of the OK button. The selected focus point can be confirmed on the LCD, but once familiar, it's really no problem selecting a focus point without taking your eye from the VF. Quite a few experienced shooters turn this feature off after a while as it can actually become annoying.

The importance of focus point indicators was completely overblown by "professional" reviews with the Kx, and I'm sure that they will do the same with the K500. A mistake?. . . maybe since perception becomes reality for those who don't have the wherewithall to think for themselves, but to my mind, this is a reasonable feature to cut in an entry level model. Using center point focusing, it's much better to train yourself to concentrate on the central ( ) etched in the VF screen (as it's a good approximation of the actual AF sensor area) and confirm the focus accuracy with your eye, IMO.

Worst case situation -- the model doesn't sell well, they do a fire sale, and the K500 sells like the Kx did in a similar situation (very well), adding to the user base. Since it's apparently not going to be sold in Japan, production numbers won't be incredibly high, so there shouldn't be much trouble selling them out.

Sorry, this is kind of a pet peeve with me. . .

Scott

06-14-2013, 04:03 PM   #47
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Perrineville, NJ
Posts: 1,364
If 80% of PF members don't bother with multi-point, your average entry-level shooter is probably not going to either. Realistically, they just simply won't bother. And how many of those are like my brother-in-law who shoots in live-view all the time anyway.

I like having the option of 11 AF points, but given their huge looming area, it's a lot more reliable to just center focus and recompose. If we had 81 AF points, then they would be smaller, and more meaningful. It really just doesn't matter so much with the current Pentax AF implementation.

I will be the first to say that it is especially ironic to have a relatively huge and bright pentaprism in the K-500, which will very much impress newcomers when compared alongside the SL1/T5i and D3200/D5200 .... Maybe Pentax is waiting to see if they can actually get these into Target and Best Buy, before they enable the firmware release to turn on the hidden LEDs.

Last edited by Tanzer; 06-14-2013 at 07:53 PM.
06-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #48
Site Supporter
geomez's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Preskit Arizona
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,560
So most users end up using the center point to focus... ok...
Sell an entry level DSLR with one center focus point and one AF LED indicator. What's the point of 11 point auto focus if you don't know exactly which ones are achieving focus?

Personally I'd buy a camera with one point auto focus with AF confirmation over a one hundred point system with no indicators.
06-14-2013, 04:23 PM - 2 Likes   #49
Senior Member
DanWeso's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 191
One of the reasons I upgraded my K-x to something else....

The Problem With The Focus-Recompose Method

Why Focus-Recompose Sucks

06-14-2013, 06:31 PM   #50
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,631
QuoteOriginally posted by DanWeso Quote
One of the reasons I upgraded my K-x to something else....

The Problem With The Focus-Recompose Method

Why Focus-Recompose Sucks
Yeah, CF&R doesn't work. 80% of the people here are stupid and don't know how to focus a camera. I own a K-x. It has focus issues that have nothing to do with CF&R.
06-14-2013, 06:56 PM   #51
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,452
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The competition is very HIGH and the margin is very low in the sector till USD1000. Too various choice for customers.

I see that a lot of Pentax fans are blind. Pentax is not the player of any competition battles. Never was. It's funny to reason about Pentax and Competition. if they catch 1% from 4/3 system it will be success.

It's small company which try to survive at the market for many years and sometimes they produce very attractive products. But rather rare.
And nothing else.

Pentax is God only in the eyes of Pentaxian. But the reality is different. Pentax is dwarf.
The photoworld is MUCH wider than Pentax pot.
Is there a CanonForums?

Last edited by monochrome; 06-15-2013 at 04:48 AM.
06-14-2013, 06:58 PM   #52
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,452
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Yeah, CF&R doesn't work. 80% of the people here are stupid and don't know how to focus a camera. I own a K-x. It has focus issues that have nothing to do with CF&R.
+1

I've had a KX (film camera) since 1977. It doesn't have any focus points. Just a big circle in the middle.

I've never had any problems.
06-14-2013, 07:35 PM   #53
Loyal Site Supporter
THoog's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: North Carolina
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,399
You can't fool us - no one ever took a photograph before there was forty-leven-point AF and f/1.4 stabilized HSM zoom lenses!

Based on what we've seen in the K-01 threads, it seems like a lot of the cheapskate budget-conscious users use MF glass anyhow, so the AF points would be moot point for them. If the K-500 has good video capability, it could be popular with the budget cine crowd.

I have a friend with a K-x that frequently complains about the lack of AF points. Most of his problem shots I have looked at were caused by shooting wide open and getting thin DoF / soft focus, not by wrong AF point. I've told him that AF points don't really show what the camera is focusing on, just what AF point it is using. Maybe I'm splitting hairs...

06-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #54
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,112
QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
I think it should be remembered that the LED AF point indicators do not indicate focus confirmation. The green LCD hexagon at the bottom of the VF screen is the focus lock indicator. The red LED square also does not even come close to indicating the size of the AF sensor area. These are both points of significant confusion for a whole lot of folks.
But it helps and it works. And it's very practical thing.
LED square are always CLOSE to size AF sensor area with my cameras. The size is bigger, yes.

Do you know other camera at the market without AF LED in VF?
06-14-2013, 07:37 PM   #55
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,728
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
+1

I've had a KX (film camera) since 1977. It doesn't have any focus points. Just a big circle in the middle.

I've never had any problems.
Have you permanently turned the focus point indicators off on your K10D?
06-14-2013, 07:37 PM   #56
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,112
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
+1

I've had a KX (film camera) since 1977. It doesn't have any focus points. Just a big circle in the middle.

I've never had any problems.
Do you mock at us?
06-14-2013, 08:28 PM - 1 Like   #57
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Perrineville, NJ
Posts: 1,364
QuoteOriginally posted by DanWeso Quote
One of the reasons I upgraded my K-x to something else....

The Problem With The Focus-Recompose Method

Why Focus-Recompose Sucks
The difference is the cosine of the angle, which is not much for small angles, and even that assumes a flat field of view. Unfortunately the math in the first article is incorrect and grossly overstates the error. Panning 6 inches down from your subjects close eye will not suddenly cause the focus plane to move 4.5 feet(!) behind the subject.

The truth is, an APS-c sensor can get a lot of newbies in trouble, just as it sometimes gets a lot of seasoned Pentaxians in trouble. When they start offering the K-500 as a kit with the DA*55 f/1.4, then I would start to worry. With the DA-L 18-55, not so much.

Sorry that you had to spend the money to upgrade, I would most certainly have done this probably myself for the same reason. OTOH, in one way, Pentax played its cards right because they made more money by getting you to upgrade.
06-14-2013, 08:31 PM   #58
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Perrineville, NJ
Posts: 1,364
QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
So most users end up using the center point to focus... ok...
Sell an entry level DSLR with one center focus point and one AF LED indicator. What's the point of 11 point auto focus if you don't know exactly which ones are achieving focus?

Personally I'd buy a camera with one point auto focus with AF confirmation over a one hundred point system with no indicators.
So would I, but the camera is not aimed at either of us. (oooh, bad pun was not intentional)
06-14-2013, 09:21 PM - 3 Likes   #59
Site Supporter
Aristophanes's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,790
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The competition is very HIGH and the margin is very low in the sector till USD1000. Too various choice for customers.

I see that a lot of Pentax fans are blind. Pentax is not the player of any competition battles. Never was. It's funny to reason about Pentax and Competition. if they catch 1% from 4/3 system it will be success.

It's small company which try to survive at the market for many years and sometimes they produce very attractive products. But rather rare.
And nothing else.

Pentax is God only in the eyes of Pentaxian. But the reality is different. Pentax is dwarf.
The photoworld is MUCH wider than Pentax pot.
This is funny.

MOST of the people on this forum are sub-FF cost purchasers.

Pentax just makes really good, nicely specced, affordable DSLR's.

But the irony, Ogl, is that you say the photo world is much bigger.

Actually, its mostly made up of people taking photos with relatively inexpensive cameras!!

Photography by far, as in 99.99999% is made up of vernacular photography of the people, by the people, and for the people.

Flickr, Facebook, and huge a amounts of private sharing dominates all image taking by factors over any volume the "pros" put out. It's not even a contest.

So the companies that put people into the hands of that activity are part of what Pentax sells to.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 06-15-2013 at 03:07 AM.
06-14-2013, 11:28 PM   #60
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,311
+1 on Aristophanes!


I dont see the problem, a camera brand must have a entry level segment...
K-500 is not the camera for most of us, but it may be the camera for a huge load of beginners and people starting to interest themselves in photography for various reasons.
I started with a Canon EOS 350D, it learned me about photography. I then moved on. Its what people do, they start cheap and learn.

I dont really understand the negative attitudes against the lower class cameras... we need them, even though we dont buy them. We need people to by them, because without that, we cant have any upper end cameras.

You all should help Pentax sell cameras instead of complaining
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
batteries, battery, holder, k-500, market, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, viewfinder
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-500 Specs per Pentax USA Docrwm Pentax K-30 & K-50 12 07-19-2013 09:16 PM
For Sale - Sold: Asahi Pentax 2x viewfinder Magnifier for Spotmatic (etc.) cheekygeek Sold Items 6 06-22-2012 01:28 PM
Purchased Amazon K-7 bundle have specs in viewfinder - suggestions? TestJet Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 02-25-2010 07:25 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:30 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top