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07-03-2013, 03:13 PM   #181
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I think it is good decision.
Poor company or strong brand.


Last edited by romeck; 07-03-2013 at 06:08 PM.
07-03-2013, 03:38 PM   #182
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In celebration of the news I just purchased a K5IIS which I look forward to using outdoors in our 115 degree current temperatures.
07-03-2013, 03:53 PM - 1 Like   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Prairie Dog Quote
In celebration of the news I just purchased a K5IIS which I look forward to using outdoors in our 115 degree current temperatures.
You should send it back. It will quit working if the next generation DSLR is called a Ricoh instead of a Pentax.
07-03-2013, 03:56 PM - 1 Like   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I had intended to buy a Pentax 10-17mm this week, to complet my line of lenses. But now I have delayed that purchase. After I've spend more than 4000 euros, it's a problem of trust. A big one for me. And I think that I'm not the only one.
Your call but you're delaying your pleasure with this unique lens

There's a lot of drama around this name change but for now it's only a label change on the bottom of the camera, nothing to worry about. The real test will be when they will release really new models. When Sony took over Minolta, it took them at least a couple of year before releasing anything substantial, they only had the rather average Alpha 100 for a while. I expect the next big advances will come around september/october.

07-03-2013, 04:05 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I had intended to buy a Pentax 10-17mm this week, to complet my line of lenses. But now I have delayed that purchase. After I've spend more than 4000 euros, it's a problem of trust. A big one for me. And I think that I'm not the only one.
Real question is whom do you trust, or trust not?

You should be asking yourself whether the Pentax twits feeding the common ignorance around have any clue about what is exactly:
  • a company name
  • a trade mark
  • a corporate entity
  • a subsidiary
  • a brand name

Not a single engineer designing a Pentax branded product, during the almost 50 years of hard work under Asahi Optical, or during the ownership by Hoya, worked for Pentax. They all worked on Pentax. They were all employed by Asahi Optical, and by Hoya, and received their salaries and remunerations through Asahi Optical and Hoya. That was their real life. Asahi Optical and Hoya were supporting them and their livelihood. Now that tradition continues under Ricoh.

In reality, Pentax is just an idiom — an idea around a group of products, a philosophy of image taking. Trade marks as such were invented to protect certain well received products and services from ever changing corporate restructuring and human mortality. Ideas give a sense of purpose, and anchor in all that existential turmoil. This is Plato's well developed idea, of long ago. As such, ideas are indestructible, and different people can contribute to their value, as history clearly shows in the case of Pentax.

Most of the engineers who originally worked on Pentax branded products in the early 1950s are, probably, dead by now. They could've never even dreamt about the products such as the K5IIs or the Q7. Or BSI sensors. But the idea still persists, and Pentax is present, with all new people contributing to the idea.

So when talking about the Pentax idiom, Pentax twits and ignoramuses are also tapping into philosophy, which flies well over their heads.

Last edited by Uluru; 07-03-2013 at 04:16 PM.
07-03-2013, 04:09 PM   #186
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I waiting for someone to give up on Pentax and sell a SMC Takumar 24/3.5 or a K/A24/2.8 in the marketplace.
Since its RICOH now and not Pentax, make sure to sell it cheap.
07-03-2013, 04:11 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
In reality, Pentax is just an idiom an idea around a group of products, a philosophy of image taking.
You got it right but there is always a risk that Ricoh will do like Sony did with Minolta. I don't think many people think Sony respected the Minolta "idiom" too much except maybe for the A900.
07-03-2013, 04:24 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
You got it right but there is always a risk that Ricoh will do like Sony did with Minolta. I don't think many people think Sony respected the Minolta "idiom" too much except maybe for the A900.
I'm not sure what were the exact rights and patents Sony has purchased from Konica Minolta. So I cannot comment whether Sony should have kept Minolta branded cameras or not.

But if they have purchased it all, in that Sony's act is a good warning for Ricoh. Sony has virtually demolished its DSLR products and phased them extinct before they even deserved such a fate. It's an example of corporate arrogance and snobbism — quite abundant in Sony's case during the decades — which thinks their idea is bigger than the other, and try to forcefully graft their totally different values onto the old ones. The result is a dead plant.

Sony is incapable of being a curator of the brand. They cannot be 'invisible, nourishing hand' so to speak. Because in their core, snobbery is their company value.

07-03-2013, 04:32 PM   #189
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It is not only a name change which rise some questions in my mind. There are 3 years in which we saw only minor updates in the DSLR line. And this words, ''consumer oriented products'' from the Ricoh announcement. What did they want to say?

There will be some new, real new DSRL created with the K mount, and compatible tehnology, whatever the name? That's my problem.
07-03-2013, 04:54 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
It is not only a name change which rise some questions in my mind. There are 3 years in which we saw only minor updates in the DSLR line. And this words, ''consumer oriented products'' from the Ricoh announcement. What did they want to say?

There will be some new, real new DSRL created with the K mount, and compatible tehnology, whatever the name? That's my problem.
Consumer oriented means imaging products not oriented for corporate entities. Ricoh Imaging Corporation serves both ends, and thrives from products and services provided to both ends. If they say they'll introduce consumer oriented products, it means cameras and lenses and other stuff consumers are interested in.

But I agree with you. The idea finally must be materialised in some new form.
Now it's early July. Let's give them all the time until Christmas to give us that new they have been working on.
Let's go even further and give them a luxury of a pre-announcement only, clearly shown but that will materialise in early 2014.

Practically, they have only 3-4 months left to show off. We've waited for 2+ years, extra 3-4 months won't add any significant difference to our waiting. If they don't introduce anything really new in 2013, but only very minor cosmetic tweaks like the K50/K500 or Q7, I think we can almost safely say that Ricoh has severely damaged the Pentax brand.

Last edited by Uluru; 07-03-2013 at 05:04 PM.
07-03-2013, 04:55 PM - 2 Likes   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
You should send it back. It will quit working if the next generation DSLR is called a Ricoh instead of a Pentax.
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised with the derogatory attitude a lot of people are taking in this thread. Since you're a moderator, I'm not sure why you're making fun of (or poking fun at) people that are genuinely concerned about this name change. I know that none of the derogatory comments were directed at me, but I still take offense, especially since I'm more on the side of "worried" than those that are clearly "annoyed by those that are worried". I am concerned with Pentax's direction, or lack of direction. While I know that the change in name doesn't affect the quality of camera, it still changes things. Do these changes matter? To some, they do. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Probably not.

Last I checked, this was the "Friendly Pentax Camera Forum". If some people are misunderstanding the significance of this name change, wouldn't it be better to explain (I know some are already doing that, and thank you to those who are doing that), instead of just continually making fun of people for their understandable concerns, especially since Pentax hasn't exactly been as innovative as we had all hoped. It seems like a lot of people have really been acting like jerks, on these forums, recently. I see a lot less friendly, and a lot more frustrated from both ends. There seems to be a division between those that want something new now, and those that don't feel it's necessary or crucial. I started posting on these forums because of how friendly and helpful everyone was, geez, now even the moderators are making fun of people. I didn't know it was that type of forum.

I have always said that I love my camera and my lenses. They are great. The Ricoh regime has not produced what we had hoped. When they first took over Pentax, there was a general sense of hope that good things were coming. Nothing major has come. Loyal consumers are frustrated and worried. I understand them. I may not agree with all of them, but I understand their concerns. Can we go back to being friendly and helpful? The condescending attitude I've been seeing lately is more annoying than the full frame rumors.
07-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised with the derogatory attitude a lot of people are taking in this thread. Since you're a moderator, I'm not sure why you're making fun of (or poking fun at) people that are genuinely concerned about this name change. I know that none of the derogatory comments were directed at me, but I still take offense, especially since I'm more on the side of "worried" than those that are clearly "annoyed by those that are worried". I am concerned with Pentax's direction, or lack of direction. While I know that the change in name doesn't affect the quality of camera, it still changes things. Do these changes matter? To some, they do. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Probably not.

Last I checked, this was the "Friendly Pentax Camera Forum". If some people are misunderstanding the significance of this name change, wouldn't it be better to explain (I know some are already doing that, and thank you to those who are doing that), instead of just continually making fun of people for their understandable concerns, especially since Pentax hasn't exactly been as innovative as we had all hoped. It seems like a lot of people have really been acting like jerks, on these forums, recently. I see a lot less friendly, and a lot more frustrated from both ends. There seems to be a division between those that want something new now, and those that don't feel it's necessary or crucial. I started posting on these forums because of how friendly and helpful everyone was, geez, now even the moderators are making fun of people. I didn't know it was that type of forum.

I have always said that I love my camera and my lenses. They are great. The Ricoh regime has not produced what we had hoped. When they first took over Pentax, there was a general sense of hope that good things were coming. Nothing major has come. Loyal consumers are frustrated and worried. I understand them. I may not agree with all of them, but I understand their concerns. Can we go back to being friendly and helpful? The condescending attitude I've been seeing lately is more annoying than the full frame rumors.
Yes, I am a moderator. I am also a member of the forum, a long time Pentax user, I have an opinion, and I participate in the discussions. I'm not a bot, I'm not Memorex; I'm live!
07-03-2013, 05:10 PM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Yes, I am a moderator. I am also a member of the forum, a long time Pentax user, I have an opinion, and I participate in the discussions. I'm not a bot, I'm not Memorex; I'm live!
You don't have to condescend/belittle others in order to have an opinion and/or participate.
07-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
I have to admit that I'm a little surprised with the derogatory attitude a lot of people are taking in this thread. Since you're a moderator, I'm not sure why you're making fun of (or poking fun at) people that are genuinely concerned about this name change. I know that none of the derogatory comments were directed at me, but I still take offense, especially since I'm more on the side of "worried" than those that are clearly "annoyed by those that are worried". I am concerned with Pentax's direction, or lack of direction. While I know that the change in name doesn't affect the quality of camera, it still changes things. Do these changes matter? To some, they do. Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Probably not.

Last I checked, this was the "Friendly Pentax Camera Forum". If some people are misunderstanding the significance of this name change, wouldn't it be better to explain (I know some are already doing that, and thank you to those who are doing that), instead of just continually making fun of people for their understandable concerns, especially since Pentax hasn't exactly been as innovative as we had all hoped. It seems like a lot of people have really been acting like jerks, on these forums, recently. I see a lot less friendly, and a lot more frustrated from both ends. There seems to be a division between those that want something new now, and those that don't feel it's necessary or crucial. I started posting on these forums because of how friendly and helpful everyone was, geez, now even the moderators are making fun of people. I didn't know it was that type of forum.

I have always said that I love my camera and my lenses. They are great. The Ricoh regime has not produced what we had hoped. When they first took over Pentax, there was a general sense of hope that good things were coming. Nothing major has come. Loyal consumers are frustrated and worried. I understand them. I may not agree with all of them, but I understand their concerns. Can we go back to being friendly and helpful? The condescending attitude I've been seeing lately is more annoying than the full frame rumors.
Oh come on! Lighten up!

The guy is just having some fun.

You should too!

How about a bike ride?

07-03-2013, 05:28 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Oh come on! Lighten up!

The guy is just having some fun.

You should too!

How about a bike ride?
I think he should be more careful about the way he has fun. It's probably just the way he wrote his comments. He's a moderator. He helps to set and control the tone of a thread and forum. He is completely entitled to his ideas and opinions, but he needs to be a little more considerate of the fact that there are a lot of people that are posting these very serious (if only to them) concerns. If I posted on these forums and a bunch of people started to imply that I'm an idiot for having these concerns and then a moderator shows up and posts a link for tin foil hats, I'd have a really bad impression of this site.

I'm sure Parallax is a great guy and I've probably read and agreed with many of his posts, but I just think he needs to be more careful about how he posts his opinions. There's a way to jest, and there's a way to be a jerk. I think a lot of people on this thread are being really rude. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just what I think.

You're pretty much calling me uptight, but you wrote it in a way that I can't possibly be offended. It made me laugh. A lot of these other comments just sound snobbish.
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