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07-05-2013, 11:05 AM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by GibbyTheMole Quote
That thing is an abomination.
Without a doubt.

07-05-2013, 11:31 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
monochrome was talking about countries, but IMO it makes sense to go with regions instead. Strategies are handled at a more general level.

Anyway, I'm not sure it was about "poor decisions at and the mishandling of the US Division", as much as Pentax Imaging (U.S.) having to meet Hoya's requirements. Cost cutting forced upon them (and on Pentax, from Hoya) would have this effect.
  1. I meant Countries. EU has several Regional Distributors and different marketing by Region and country even if the EU Common Market is larger than the US. But the fact that the EU is 500MM and the US is 307MM people is sort of my point. The US is not 70% of the world's consumption any more, as it was around 1980, so we need to stop moaning about not having our needs met and think about things on a global scale..
  2. I meant poor decisions and mishandled marketing by Ned and John C. I did not mean having to meet Hoya's requirements. Hoya did not require the big box, Distributor strategy which cut off all the retail dealers at the knees. Hoya did not require the US to undercut pricing of all the other Divisions in the world through 3-5 primary internet dealers. Hoya did not require the US to outsource virtually every function of P-USA to a contractor and let go all but 50 employees, then move the company to swank office space in downtown Denver.
07-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
It is kinda weird, isn't it?


That is amazing. Just slap that onto a Gorillapod and you have an instant CAMERA FIGHTING ROBOT toy.
07-05-2013, 02:42 PM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
It is kinda weird, isn't it?
Looks like a monster who's trying to blend in by channeling Colin Baker's coat.

07-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #260
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That's utterly brand damaging.
Regardless on which market this is available or not, even the sheer existence of such photos is brand damaging.

Say, if Leica or Nikon would have something like that on offer, regardless whether it would be a tiny limited Edition, would you take them serious any longer?

Come on, this MUST be a photoshop fake? please, let it be a fake.
07-05-2013, 03:28 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
That's utterly brand damaging.
Regardless on which market this is available or not, even the sheer existence of such photos is brand damaging.

Say, if Leica or Nikon would have something like that on offer, regardless whether it would be a tiny limited Edition, would you take them serious any longer?

Come on, this MUST be a photoshop fake? please, let it be a fake.
They don't do any lenses like that do they so it must be fake?
07-05-2013, 03:34 PM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
That's utterly brand damaging.
Regardless on which market this is available or not, even the sheer existence of such photos is brand damaging.

Say, if Leica or Nikon would have something like that on offer, regardless whether it would be a tiny limited Edition, would you take them serious any longer?

Come on, this MUST be a photoshop fake? please, let it be a fake.
You must be very new to Pentax as the "Korejanai" limited edition K-r (shown in that photo), and K-x before that, were released years ago. Oh, and they sold out almost instantly.

Must not have been very "brand damaging" if after only a couple years, newcomers never heard of them, old timers hardly remember them, and the collectors that raced to buy them are happy.

Of course, cameras are Serious Business right? No fun allowed here. Nevermind the fact that most consumers of entry level goods are more interested in distinctive, fun looks for their possessions than conservative, featureless black for everything. And then there are collectors who are either fans of the franchise, or generally don't care just as long as they get their hands on those rare, limited edition items.

Last edited by Cannikin; 07-05-2013 at 04:03 PM.
07-05-2013, 04:23 PM   #263
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Last edited by boriscleto; 07-05-2013 at 09:53 PM.
07-05-2013, 07:01 PM - 1 Like   #264
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So these coloured bodies are Ricoh's strategy? That doesn't seem like Ricoh. Their cameras were mostly black and serious looking. The K-30 to K-50 upgrade looks like a very similar transition to the K-X to K-R, which was pure Pentax. Actually, I think Ricoh's strategy has been quite simple so far - let Pentax do what they do, give them the budget to market their products and green-light some more ambitious projects that they hadn't been able to develop before.

It's just my speculation, but I think the main reason for the change to the K-50 may have been to enable them to produce the K-500 on the same production line. Since the K-500 will not be released in Japan, it is entirely export-focused initiative. And the white/blue K-01 is no different to the silver K20D/K-7/K-5 models. I guess they made it along with the other colours, planning to release it as a limited edition later, which they now have done.

The idea that Pentax has just decided to vacate the space between $1,000 and $6,000 is not credible to me. Also the notion that Pentax engineers just sit around choosing the colours of the next bodies might be amusing, but it's ridiculous. They must be working on a major product line for the enthusiast market that goes beyond one isolated camera model. My guess is a full frame K-mount with all the lenses that would imply or a whole new mirrorless system - maybe both.

I don't want to give Pentax a pass for neglecting the high-end bodies, lenses and accessories. They have to do all that. But making their marketing efforts to the general consumer a scapegoat for that is not reasonable.
07-05-2013, 07:12 PM - 1 Like   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Regarding no major improvements in three years - there's another thread with a pretty good analysis of Pentax's new model timeline, that strongly suggests a fifteen-month production cycle, with the 2011 earthquake basically resetting everything across the board. Also, this can be debated, but my impression has been that incremental improvements have generally been the norm for Pentax, rather than the exception.
I've kept that in mind ever since. I actually did not expect them to come out with as many cameras as they have nor the improvements that they have actually made. I think it's a near miracle that with everything weather-wise that has happened in Japan, China, Korea etc that they're actually doing this well. This whole "Chicken Little" attitude that I see it really irks me because I feel it's pretty unfair given what happened. They've barely had 2 years to recover from a major disaster in several key parts of the world. There is still trouble with parts scarcity and many of the factories that make parts for our gear are still struggling with the aftermath of what happened, and it's still not even over. How many smaller quakes have their been? How much foul weather have these places had to contend with? A lot actually.

I've noticed similar very issues with the dolls I collect. The cost of material and the consequent prices of dolls went up a lot. People are not happy about that, and I'm admittedly grumbling myself, but no one wants to think about the fact that some of these companies are literally rebuilding their businesses after a major catastrophe. Look at what happened here with Sandy. Much of the outer lying beach areas of the upper NE coast are still dealing with the aftermath of that. Tourist season is upon them and many of the shops and businesses are still closed. Many will never recover. I think we're lucky that these companies are still here to make cameras. Between the weather disasters and the recession I'm surprised they are doing as well as they are.

Personally I think the K-30 and K5II are really decent upgrades. I'm so impressed with what I've seen of the K5II that I'm planning on getting me one and that's coming from someone who doesn't ordinarily plunk down 1K to buy a camera, who really has to stretch and save to be able to afford that. I simply cannot afford to upgrade every new cam like some of the people here. So for me to say. Yes, I am going there, I'm going to likely buy a Pentax camera and a lens that's not used and 5 years old, that's a big deal and I think it says a lot about my faith in the brand. If my next DSLR 5 years down the road says "Ricoh" so be it. So long as they keep making cameras like these? I'll be fine. I think the K-30 and the K-5II are just stellar cams given the circumstances. I really don't get the griping at all.

Last edited by magkelly; 07-05-2013 at 07:18 PM.
07-05-2013, 10:17 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
So these coloured bodies are Ricoh's strategy? That doesn't seem like Ricoh. Their cameras were mostly black and serious looking.
Ricoh has done colour consumer models, just like every single other camera maker as the market demands. And just like every other manufacturer, the more 'pro' models tend to be black (or silver/metal) as the market demands. Ricoh's GRD and GXR were always aimed at the more serious shooters, while the Caplio/CX range were their version of the P&S consumer Coolpix, Cybershot, Optio etc etc.:

07-05-2013, 11:36 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
1. Are you talking about the internet complainers?
No, about history of corporate company names :
1- Asahi optical company,
2- Pentax Corporation,
3- Hoya Corporation,
4- PRIC, and as from next august 1st : Ricoh Imaging co.
... and market-shares negative evolution during this time period...
What arised to their competitors in the meantime ?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
2. We're talking about the company name being changed, not about brands, but whatever.
Less than 2 years passed since Ricoh took over Pentax Imaging, obviously no major marketing or "innovation" breakthrough could be made. Actually expecting sudden jumps in any domain would be unrealistic; have patience, things are moving forward.
The blue K-01 was announced due to customer demand, for a specific market. You're saying Pentax should ignore customer demand...
Please don't insist, you know what i mean.
I am patient and loyal Pentax user, but this time i am also worried.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
3. And what if there is no overlapping?
It doesn't change the necessity/preference for a unique commercial brand in the mid-term.
And the new corporate name is just uncoherent with PRIC's initial choice.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
4. Are you seriously suggesting that Ricoh should stop using their own name, completely? That would be unusual...
How about PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
Not at all (again...), they should just concentrate on Pentax name for the photography segment (as commercial label) if they do want better public recognition and marketing efficiency

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
5. Exactly how much does it cost?
It costs administrative, furnitures and overheads.
But the heaviest cost is "aura" depletion.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 07-05-2013 at 11:56 PM.
07-05-2013, 11:47 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
I've kept that in mind ever since......Yes, I am going there, I'm going to likely buy a Pentax camera and a lens that's not used and 5 years old, that's a big deal and I think it says a lot about my faith in the brand. If my next DSLR 5 years down the road says "Ricoh" so be it. So long as they keep making cameras like these? I'll be fine. I think the K-30 and the K-5II are just stellar cams given the circumstances. I really don't get the griping at all.
Hi,
i globally agree with you, but look at innovation in companies competing with PRIC since those two years : for example Fuji (X-trans sensor and X system new lenses and bodies), Olympus (OM-D and new lenses), or Sony (RX series). Not forgetting Samsung (Galaxy NX)... starting form the scratch in the photography segment with Pentax 6 or 7 years ago...

In comparison, what kind of decisive/significant product innovations do we find with PRIC under the Pentax brand ?

=> the new HD coating , the new 645 DFA 90mm with internal shake reduction, the new sensor in Q-7, the new MX-1 are rather minor efforts to date, some of them initialised before Ricoh's take-over.
And desperately nothing significantly new has been achieved for the K-mount , representing the core Pentax business (removing AA filter in K-5II ? not significant ; DA 560mm : product studies launched before take-over)

Last edited by Zygonyx; 07-05-2013 at 11:59 PM.
07-06-2013, 12:10 AM   #269
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My conclusion : any "stability threatening" decision or untimely communication should be banned from PENTAX owner's agenda.
And conversely, PENTAX's customers are getting impatient to see the fructs of the new ambition that RICOH unveilled for their group in acquiring PENTAX from HOYA

Last edited by Zygonyx; 07-06-2013 at 12:15 AM.
07-06-2013, 12:10 AM   #270
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When Santa didn't bring you a present you dreamt about, even Santa's elves are guilty of laziness, Santa's sleigh is an old bucket, and all friends of Santa are bozos.

Discussion and murmur here reminds me of kindergarten, kids discussing presents well before the Christmas. Not a single kid knows what will be under the tree, and they are already judgmental about possible conspiracies in the high heavens above, which don't accelerate the space-time continuum and move planets faster to make Christmas coming the next day.

Perhaps the sanest comment I heard recently in Pentax community isn't about gear, but about finance. If nothing else, Pentax has given you well enough time to save money to spend on new toys when they arrive. Save, buy with cash in hands, buy immediately when it comes, and be debt free by not repaying credit card interest rates.
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