Originally posted by Kunzite Aren't Sony "Carl Zeiss" lenses manufactured by Sony? Please give us some more details on this
I never have been reading anything else then Cosina being the subcontractor for Zeiss lenses. The last time I Google-researched this more extensively was when I was iterested in the RX100 as pocketable second cam. Never saw a guarantee though, that Cosina is the exclusive producer for all contemporary Zeiss branded (consumer level) lenses. These subcontracting relationships could change any time anyway, and most companies seem to avoid advertising these setups too much.
Anyway, since I regard the RX100's optical 'Zeiss' performance very high, I would be quite excited if Ricoh wins Cosina for doing the future Pentax lenses for Ricoh (and be it only the design and the lens elements).
Originally posted by Kunzite Ricoh Imaging/Pentax has no reason to give up on their lens design and manufacturing capabilities
I believe from my interpretations of the circumstantial evidences, that Hoya abandoned these already, so that there's nothing left for Ricoh to 'not give up'. I don't mean the Vietnamese lens assembly site, where parts (produced whereever by whomever?) are assembled. Hoya raised that site as a replacement for having abandoned the Pentax Corp owned Tokyo factory sites.
Unsure about how Hoya/Tokina are intertwined, AFAIK the bottom line is that there's no formal part-or-full ownership of Tokina by Hoya documented in statements, but a less transparent but similar tight relationship is established by means of family relationships among founders, presidents, CEOs, chairmans, and principal shareholders. This is informal, but that doesn't matter anyway, as long as such a close cooperation in many areas is evident, as if they were belonging together. For example Hoya's filter division (hoyafilter.com) uses Kenko Tokina Corp to present and distribute Hoya filters (and to operate hoyafilter.com under Kenko-Tokina copyright).
Assuming a very, very close relationship, then Hoya already had access to Tokinas lens design resources, and Pentax' would have been redundant. At least this would help understanding, if Hoya disbanded Pentax designers (maybe gradually) in favour for their long-term cooperation with Tokina. That would have made sense economically. No blame. Hoya were not interested too much in Pentax' camera division anyway, they acquired Pentax because of Pentax' other divisions' value to them. At least Tokina and Pentax had a one-off benefit from their mutual lens design pooling, thanks to them being two children of Hoya (one loved, one owned), but that was a one-off thrust to their respective lens lines, which can't be extrapolated into the post-Hoya future?
Originally posted by Kunzite I'm not sure who's the "lens industry" who is regarding Pentax as a sinking ship Please give us some more details on this
With that I mean the 3rd party lens supplier industry, where Sigma and Tamron represent the few left in this industry not having stopped producing for Pentax-K under their respective own brand, but Tamron seemed to have stopped offering newer lenses for Pentax K (including interesting ones, for which there's a demand evident in forums), and Sigma is very slow and shows delays when offering their new lenses also for Pentax K. Both is a mutually consistent indication, that they seem loosing interest in Pentax-K coverage, i.e. seem regarding them as "a sinking ship" from their very own business perspective (at least Tamron serves here more obviously as an early indicator).
Another indication: The ex-Pentax senior designer Jun Hirakawa now works for Tamron (as per patent application evidence), therefore Tamron posesses true and deepest insider knowledge about where Pentax-K stands currently and may stand in the future. Maybe this made them stopping to support Pentax K for their newest-generation lenses? Even though Tamron is not representig the lens industry, their Pentax-K insider knowledge gives their decisions a special weighting. This is worrying in so far, as it indicates, that Tamron doesn't have much hope in the K bodies' market share future (if only Pentax lenses were worrying, then Tamron woudn't mind too much, being a lens competitor).
But Tamron's insider knowledge is of course only a snapshot in time, which is aging (unless there's still good networking among former colleagues). Else, they probably don't have Ricoh insider knowledge.
Originally posted by Kunzite Please be aware that Pentax is in the process of recovering [...] starting with their next year's financial data we'll see (if they'll publish it)
Yep, we'll see. Would be great for us Pentax users, if we'll see an upwards trend. This may not be reflected yet in their next financial P&L statement(s), and nobody should ask for this. Hoya had laid the foundation for a '?'-shaped profit trend (short term increase, medium-to-long term decline). Now Ricoh has the challenging task to lay the foundation for a J-shaped profit. Which is the much harder task out of these two options, assuming that liquidating (or sacking) resources is quick, but rebuilding own resources is costly and would take many, many years of time. If they manage, I will admire them. But I'm afraid, that this task may be just too hard. The guy responsible for the DSLR business will have to convince his bosses (who will have to convice the shareholders), that Ricoh has to invest substantially (even if this makes the DSLR business facing a loss) for some time, if they really want to turn the '?'-shaped future profit trend into a 'J' shape. That's why I believe that Ricoh will avoid such investments, and will want to [continue to] partner up with a capable lens maker, who can be convinced (won't be Tamron) that low-level market shares will still be profitable for their involvement. During Hoya ownership, the partnering lens maker was Tokina, which probably didn't need to be convinced much because of their special close (a bit intransparent) relationship with Hoya.
Back to R&D resources, I mentioned before that Jun Hirakawa, a (or the?) leading lens designer of former Pentax Corp, had filed a patent for his new employer Tamron recently. Is anyone aware of any Hoya/Ricoh lens objective patent been issued during the years of Hoya/Ricoh era, and be it only a single one? If there's a recent lens patent, then this would be a strong argument against my suspicion, that Hoya had disbanded Pentax' lens R&D resources along with the their Japanese lens production business. I assume, that a new lens objective design would be filed as a patent application ASAP by its inventing company.