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07-17-2013, 07:01 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That explains a lot. I remember reading statements from Sony's managers, Sony was interested to buy Nikon firsthand, but then decided to get all the patents and the SLR mount from Minolta. To develop their own camera systems and experiments for the future, I'd guess. Buying certain tech makes it all much easier to innovate on top of it, and gain certain momentum in the beginning.

If they had decided to buy the whole Nikon, they'd need to act as stewards of the well known and prospering brand, keep the brand name and its promise in the future. Knowing Sony's history, they are incapable of that their ego and vanity are just too big for it.
With Sony's resources, the number of products they have put out, the Minolta technology, and their distribution empire, you would think they should be near the top. They are in nearly every electronics or big box store and a lot of general retailers, plus camera stores. My own opinion of the company is high end products that just don't hold up. This opinion is from the walkmans and boom boxes that my kids had growing up. I've also got an opinion that they wanted to be an Apple. They had the disastrous proprietary "Beta" video recording system that lost. The difference was that Apple made proprietary systems that were different and well made and they had a loyal cult like following that kept them afloat in some leans time (pre ipod).

07-17-2013, 07:34 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
With Sony's resources, the number of products they have put out, the Minolta technology, and their distribution empire, you would think they should be near the top. They are in nearly every electronics or big box store and a lot of general retailers, plus camera stores. My own opinion of the company is high end products that just don't hold up. This opinion is from the walkmans and boom boxes that my kids had growing up. I've also got an opinion that they wanted to be an Apple. They had the disastrous proprietary "Beta" video recording system that lost. The difference was that Apple made proprietary systems that were different and well made and they had a loyal cult like following that kept them afloat in some leans time (pre ipod).
Sony also has a Big Brother-ish side that really irks consumers. I recall that at one time if you played a Sony (Columbia Pictures) movie or television or music CD on your computer it installed a Root Kit that "Phoned Home" to Sony everything it could find out about you on your machine. That single act still haunts Sony in the tech community and the minds of many consumers even today, some 10 years later.

I, for one, will never buy a Sony product of any kind again, no matter what it is.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-19-2013 at 11:39 AM.
07-17-2013, 07:40 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
They had the disastrous proprietary "Beta" video recording system that lost.
Sony's Betamax lost the player wars but not the recording wars. Betamax was used for ages to record by media and video journalists. Sony failed to license the technology earlier than JVC did with VHS but the video format wars were quite long and protracted by today's tech standards. I'm not sure Sony lost money on beta, but neither did they hit the jackpot. It was in no way disastrous and it had its own enduring cult following. Beta tapes may still actually me manufactured if I am not mistaken.

Sony has become the quintessential Japanese company with superb tech resources and engineering principles, but struggling to adapt to a networked world laced with simplified design structures based on software using Anglo-Saxon iconization and mimicry.

Ricoh, Pentax, Konica Minolta, Fuji, Nikon, Olympus, and even Canon struggle in a world where a new model every year (or 3 months in printers) is seen as a liability burdening the consumer with rapid obsolescence and not an asset in moving product. Japan Inc. is loaded with talent but has a very poor record at connecting with consumers lately as product line after product line has been eaten by non-Japanese competitors fro the US, EU, Korea, and more recently, China.

The way they (Konica Minolta) push copiers now is still stuck in the concept that printing is dominant whereas a huge chunk of my office has moved to online archives and PDF's and central document servers. Yet there's the sales guy in denial about us going from 8 copiers 5 years ago to one now. We just eliminated our mail and copy room; it's now a teleconference room. In five years we will likely still have one copier...but we'll pay half what we are now for it and we'll expect cheaper servicing...and we'll get it.
07-17-2013, 07:50 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
With Sony's resources, the number of products they have put out, the Minolta technology, and their distribution empire, you would think they should be near the top. They are in nearly every electronics or big box store and a lot of general retailers, plus camera stores. My own opinion of the company is high end products that just don't hold up. This opinion is from the walkmans and boom boxes that my kids had growing up. I've also got an opinion that they wanted to be an Apple. They had the disastrous proprietary "Beta" video recording system that lost. The difference was that Apple made proprietary systems that were different and well made and they had a loyal cult like following that kept them afloat in some leans time (pre ipod).
The difference between Apple and Sony is twofold:

1. Apple focuses on just a few things, and decide they'll do them better than anyone else. Remember Apple's own digital camera? Jobs killed it. Multiple lines of Macs? They were supersimplified. Newton, killed. Apple's printers, killed. Non-essential software, killed. And they do think hard, really hard and observe from all angles before committing into something. Sony wasn't like that and I think still isn't — they simply want to tap into everything.

2. Then open formats; Apple built its success on open standards core of their software (OS X and iOS both based on UNIX), but tweaked upon them and added their own design and functionality. Or, their IP. Safari too: they even returned tweaked code back to opensource, and that's how we have Google Chrome and practically all mobile browsers developed through it. Apple also avoided using proprietary file formats for media files, because they knew it will doom them (lessons learned from Sony). They also got rid of the lesser used FireWire in favour of USB in most of their consumer products, pushed development of the USB2, USB3, Thunderbolt, they also assist in Intel chip designs, etc.

In fact, Apple does look more civil and mature. Sony and Apple — two quite different companies.


Last edited by Uluru; 07-17-2013 at 07:59 PM.
07-18-2013, 02:18 AM   #35
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Apple got lucky when the two guys who owned Commodore decided to sell and take the profits. In 1990 the biggest selling PC was the Commodore Amiga - Jay Miner was a genius and I'm sick to death of hearing about Steve Jobs and Apple, who even appropriated the name of their most famous computer form a variety of fruit.

I've owned Mac's and PC's but my *heart* will always belong to the Commodore Amiga. I've got one here that's 21 years old and it's a nonlinear audio and video editing workstation that could still cut it.. I've also got a Vivid 24 GFX card, the forerunner of all the gfx cards we now take for granted. Apple has always been a poseur.
07-18-2013, 02:44 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Apple got lucky when the two guys who owned Commodore decided to sell and take the profits. In 1990 the biggest selling PC was the Commodore Amiga - Jay Miner was a genius and I'm sick to death of hearing about Steve Jobs and Apple, who even appropriated the name of their most famous computer form a variety of fruit.

I've owned Mac's and PC's but my *heart* will always belong to the Commodore Amiga. I've got one here that's 21 years old and it's a nonlinear audio and video editing workstation that could still cut it.. I've also got a Vivid 24 GFX card, the forerunner of all the gfx cards we now take for granted. Apple has always been a poseur.
How refreshing, someone who actually remembers the historic events around the Commodore Amiga correctly! It was a fantastic platform. I long owned several A500's and later an A4000 with retina GFX card. I can't help but wonder how it would have turned out if the Amiga hadn't ended like that.
07-18-2013, 02:56 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
How refreshing, someone who actually remembers the historic events around the Commodore Amiga correctly! It was a fantastic platform. I long owned several A500's and later an A4000 with retina GFX card. I can't help but wonder how it would have turned out if the Amiga hadn't ended like that.
When the platform folded Microsoft bought The Blue Ribbon Soundworks (Todor Fay et al) and used their expertise for real-time Multi-Tasking multimedia for the DX code of the Windows OS. I know this for a fact because Todor spent a number of hours on the phone with me discussing it (off the record).

Last edited by bossa; 07-18-2013 at 03:03 AM.
07-18-2013, 03:02 AM - 1 Like   #38
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@ Clavius: I have this platform in my lounge right now;

Amiga 4000 Tower
Cyberstorm 64 GFX card
Digital Broadcaster 32 nonlinear video card
Sunrize Audio16 bit multichannel audio card
Vivid24 3D GFX processor card
Cyberstorm '060 CPU and CyberSCSI daughter card.


That computer looks so contemporary when I switch it on it's scary and it's 21 years old.

07-18-2013, 05:28 AM   #39
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I had a video toaster myself, but the Amiga platform had its issues.

Steve Jobs new design and sales and could tie hardware, software, design, and marketing together. Tech adds complexity and Apple has (usually) tried to make it simpler. Commodore...not so much. UI barely advanced and marketing to business was non-existent. Great bones but an example of a company run by engineers who increasingly grew out of touch with the competition and broader market.
07-18-2013, 06:02 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
@ Clavius: I have this platform in my lounge right now;

Amiga 4000 Tower
Cyberstorm 64 GFX card
Digital Broadcaster 32 nonlinear video card
Sunrize Audio16 bit multichannel audio card
Vivid24 3D GFX processor card
Cyberstorm '060 CPU and CyberSCSI daughter card.


That computer looks so contemporary when I switch it on it's scary and it's 21 years old.
Impressive! I never went that far. I was 16 when I owned my A4000, with matching budget. I can believe it still looks contemporary.
07-18-2013, 09:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
I've also got an opinion that they wanted to be an Apple..
You got that backwards. Steve Jobs wanted Apple to be like Sony -- that was his benchmark company.
07-19-2013, 03:08 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
You got that backwards. Steve Jobs wanted Apple to be like Sony -- that was his benchmark company.
He did a better job at than Sony did.
07-19-2013, 05:36 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
He did a better job at than Sony did.
Too bad the current crop of managers are making a hash of it. 2 year life cycle for support for iPads anyone!?!
07-19-2013, 06:13 AM   #44
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You get 2 year support here but they were forced to do that and be clear about it.
07-19-2013, 10:21 AM - 1 Like   #45
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I'm sticking with Pentax Regardless - have done a bit of research and Pentax comes out tops
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