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07-24-2013, 04:03 PM - 1 Like   #16
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I sure hope so because that means a lot of you folks who are totally obsessed with the latest and greatest models will start to dump your K5II's right before Christmas and by then I might have the K7 all paid for and can pick up a K5II to go with that for under $500 early next year, lol. I do really like the looks of it but I'm a very patient soul and I know that will happen. As soon as that new flagship model shows up the price on them used will drop like a stone in deep water. :P

07-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #17
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I would guess that the new camera will be announced end of September with delivery right before the holidays.
07-24-2013, 08:25 PM - 1 Like   #18
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These pricing trends are good for us but I feel not so good for Pentax. Models are only lasting <1 year before heavy discounting. Nikon and Canon models original pricing seem to last longer so again not a good profit trend. For example, Canon 7D is over 3 years old; how many Pentax models last that long?

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07-24-2013, 11:36 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by DDoram Quote
These pricing trends are good for us but I feel not so good for Pentax. Models are only lasting <1 year before heavy discounting. Nikon and Canon models original pricing seem to last longer so again not a good profit trend. For example, Canon 7D is over 3 years old; how many Pentax models last that long?

Dale
Pentax don't often make major changes between models, so they use a slightly different strategy than Canon. FI K-7 came more than 4 years ago, and except for different sensor and updated AF-module, it no major difference compared to K-5II.

But Canon use same strategy as Pentax on their lower end cameras. EOS Rebels gets minor updates every year.

07-25-2013, 12:06 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Pentax don't often make major changes between models, so they use a slightly different strategy than Canon. FI K-7 came more than 4 years ago, and except for different sensor and updated AF-module, it no major difference compared to K-5II.

But Canon use same strategy as Pentax on their lower end cameras. EOS Rebels gets minor updates every year.
While that's as may be, I think we all regard the K-5II and IIs as stop-gap models designed to keep the market interested while the next major iteration is prepared. September would be a good month to announce a replacement for the K-5II/s, as the lower-priced K-5s are now almost exhausted, and the lesser-selling K-5II model is probably being discounted to clear excess stocks and allow both models to achieve their overall sales targets (we read, of course, that the IIs exceeded its targets, at least initially).

I reckon we'll only see the next APS-C body this year, and hopefully in September, in time for Xmas holiday season purchases, but you never know. The Q7 was a surprise, although one that required less of an effort than, say, shoe-horning a 35 mm sensor into the K-5 body, so one hopes for more pleasant surprises like that one.
07-25-2013, 01:15 AM   #21
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I think only aps-c this year!
07-25-2013, 02:00 AM   #22
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You're lucky Ricoh is not from Australia; if they have tailored product releases according to FY and holiday seasons as seen from down under, that would confuse the hell out of everyone.
07-25-2013, 02:06 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
I think only aps-c this year!
Well, one thing is sure; if Ricoh releases some form of GXR or a fixed lens cam with FF sensor and we see no FF camera from Pentax, people will be seriously pi**ed off. And that is not very improbable, you know ...

07-25-2013, 02:39 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Well, one thing is sure; if Ricoh releases some form of GXR or a fixed lens cam with FF sensor and we see no FF camera from Pentax, people will be seriously pi**ed off. And that is not very improbable, you know ...
Well, in that case people will have brought it on themselves really. Ricoh/Pentax is a minnow compared to the big players, and it's far from clear - to us, but one hopes not to them - whether the best direction for the business over the next few years includes conventional FF cameras. They are far from a given. I'm more concerned by the slow attritional grind from Canonikon on APS-C - a new feature there, a new lens here. Pretty soon those little rocks become a mountain for a small player like Ricoh/Pentax to climb.
07-25-2013, 02:45 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Well, in that case people will have brought it on themselves really. Ricoh/Pentax is a minnow compared to the big players, and it's far from clear - to us, but one hopes not to them - whether the best direction for the business over the next few years includes conventional FF cameras. They are far from a given. I'm more concerned by the slow attritional grind from Canonikon on APS-C - a new feature there, a new lens here. Pretty soon those little rocks become a mountain for a small player like Ricoh/Pentax to climb.
Yes, and that is why Pentax must come with some FF rock here and there, to grind the overall boringness and lack of true passion of the FF world as conceived by Nikon and Canon. I think people, be they Pentaxians of not, are asking for a Pentax FF also because they are BORED with Nikon's and Canon's approaches, which are identical, and just xeroxing each other.
Pentax has good chances there, they just need to be themselves — innovative, bold, different.

And it is more likely that Pentax can grab 10% of the FF market faster and sooner than 10% of the APS-C market, using same amount of energy. If they do FF, just several percents, APS-C will follow.
07-25-2013, 03:01 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, and that is why Pentax must come with some FF rock here and there, to grind the overall boringness and lack of true passion of the FF world as conceived by Nikon and Canon. I think people, be they Pentaxians of not, are asking for a Pentax FF also because they are BORED with Nikon's and Canon's approaches, which are identical, and just xeroxing each other.
Pentax has good chances there, they just need to be themselves innovative, bold, different.

And it is more likely that Pentax can grab 10% of the FF market faster and sooner than 10% of the APS-C market, using same amount of energy. If they do FF, just several percents, APS-C will follow.
Lol. Who knows, though? It's all speculation to taste really, passing time on a wet morning. I'm not too sure about Pentax "just need to be themselves", though. That did result in the K-01 which, perhaps, is now kept in a cupboard and taken out on dark nights to frighten new hires in the marketing department. It's quite hard to see how a Pentax FF DSLR can be anything other than conventional, since a DSLR is the most conventional camera you can buy. It's been the gold standard since about the 1960s, at a guess. So perhaps the most "innovative, bold, different" move Pentax can make is not to produce an FF DSLR at all.
07-25-2013, 03:12 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by DDoram Quote
These pricing trends are good for us but I feel not so good for Pentax. Models are only lasting <1 year before heavy discounting. Nikon and Canon models original pricing seem to last longer so again not a good profit trend. For example, Canon 7D is over 3 years old; how many Pentax models last that long?

Dale
There is a difference between the lower end models and the upper end models. The K5 was sold for over 2 years, which actually probably was a little too long and the fact that it was replaced with a very similar camera (the K5 II) was a problem as well. Canon didn't replace the 7D because they didn't have a better sensor to stick in a sequel. They have used the same sensor in about all of their mid to high range APS-C cameras for over three years and it has fallen behind. That definitely isn't a good thing...

An eighteen month to two year cycle is much more traditional for Pentax when it comes to flagship APS-C. On the other hand, full frame cameras tend not to get updates for three years.
07-25-2013, 03:25 AM   #28
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I think a FF in the the body of a K5 would be highly unconventional
07-25-2013, 03:30 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol. Who knows, though? It's all speculation to taste really, passing time on a wet morning. I'm not too sure about Pentax "just need to be themselves", though. That did result in the K-01 which, perhaps, is now kept in a cupboard and taken out on dark nights to frighten new hires in the marketing department. It's quite hard to see how a Pentax FF DSLR can be anything other than conventional, since a DSLR is the most conventional camera you can buy. It's been the gold standard since about the 1960s, at a guess. So perhaps the most "innovative, bold, different" move Pentax can make is not to produce an FF DSLR at all.
K-01 was really an experiment. Did you have a feeling it was a thought out concept? I didn't, even for a second.
However, re-issue a K5-like body with an FF and at the same time, using sam sensor, make a K1000-like camera, a classic SLR from 1970's shape and form, and Pentax already is differentiated. Not boring, but quite exciting. And that is basically what Pentaxians are talking about for years, a blobby black DSLR yes, but also something with a soul.

Last edited by Uluru; 07-25-2013 at 03:36 AM.
07-25-2013, 03:40 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Lol. Who knows, though? It's all speculation to taste really, passing time on a wet morning. I'm not too sure about Pentax "just need to be themselves", though. That did result in the K-01 which, perhaps, is now kept in a cupboard and taken out on dark nights to frighten new hires in the marketing department. It's quite hard to see how a Pentax FF DSLR can be anything other than conventional, since a DSLR is the most conventional camera you can buy. It's been the gold standard since about the 1960s, at a guess. So perhaps the most "innovative, bold, different" move Pentax can make is not to produce an FF DSLR at all.
You suggest that Pentax should just stick with APS-C DSLRs only? What a refreshing thought amonst all the FF noise...
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