New Camera/s by Christmas

6BQ5 · 09-01-2013, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

God help us if Pentax makes anything.

Better to have everyone equally upset over nothing than to have half the Forum singing hosanna and the othre half declaiming dooooom.

I can see the upcoming Sony A3000 doing that for the big electronics giant.

Then again, what a great way for us Pentaxians to see how the 20 MP sensor works before it trickles down to us in the form of a new camera!

Uluru · 09-01-2013, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Uluru: popularity doen't necessarily translate in sales

I'm willing to bet Pentax sells more than Fuji.

It is hard to say. But sometime ago, Thom Hogan quoted exact number of X100 cameras sold, and it was in 100K+ number, IIRC. That was for the original, very flawed but still beautiful X100, maybe within a year after the announcement. What has happened now since X100s and in later life of the X100, I don't know, but camera is in constant demand, very hard to find. I wouldn't say it sells in millions, but the number may be good.
I think it's the look and appeal that people love, and the right focal length chosen; at least in the West, GR would sell better if it had a 35mm lens. Which makes one wonder why on Earth Pentax doesn't make a damn 35mm lens, or at least does something around DA21 to sell it more.
It would be interesting to know how many K-01s Pentax sold.

Kunzite · 09-01-2013, 03:12 PM

Yeah, comparing it to the (probably) worst selling Pentax is entirely fair, and would definitely prove it to be an astounding success.

**monochrome** · 09-01-2013, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

GR would sell better if it had a 35mm lens

Really? I'd love to get my hands on one - but . . . .

Attached Images

Uluru · 09-01-2013, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Really? I'd love to get my hands on one - but . . . .

I've said in the West. Even in film days, 35mm was considered to be perfect wide-normal.
But hell will freeze over before Pentax / Ricoh make a 35mm equivalent lens for their current cameras (24mm for APS-C). Call it their Japanese trait of stubborness.
Fuji has definitely learned a lesson.

Uluru · 09-01-2013, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Yeah, comparing it to the (probably) worst selling Pentax is entirely fair, and would definitely prove it to be an astounding success.

Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax? I was merely interested to hear numbers; what was the planned production of the K-01? It was designed to last 12 months, went on fire sale and was selling for months for $400 or thereabouts. My bet is that X100 outsold K-01 in its first and only year, despite being more expensive.

Fuji is exercising a good production strategy with X100/s, similar to Ricoh's re its GR, by keeping the market deliberately undersupplied. Is it hard to admit that Fuji indeed had a much better idea than Pentax, made a great camera that doesn't need any special or fire sale to sell well?

But if it had a Pentax logo instead of Fuji's, I presume we'd read your endless odes about it, and about the brilliance of Pentax engineers

**Aristophanes** · 09-01-2013, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax?

K-m likely was.

Poit · 09-01-2013, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

I'm not sure that Ricoh would have refreshed the Limited lenses in the way they have if the only new camera they have in mind is a standard-issue black box. So while a conventional replacement or companion for the K5II is highly likely, I'm hoping for a second, wild-card camera which might be rather different and is very much the small, svelte body specifically intended to match these small prime lenses. Think Canon 100D/SL1 but taken all the way up in terms of sensor, style and materials, and perhaps not even with a mirror. People in the West might think WTF but that wouldn't matter in the least if such a camera were a hit with folks in Asia. That market alone would likely keep Ricoh running at full capacity. Time to starting issuing virtual tokens for virtual bottles of champagne so we can all place our bets ...

It's all speculation at this point, of course, but I read the Ltd's refresh as preparing the way for a 'professional' grade APS-C (as one Pentax exec. let slip earlier in the year). That would make sense to me. If you're about to release a camera and call it 'professional', you would want the other elements of the system (eg lenses and flashes) to be up to professional standard as well.

Of course, you could be right and I could be wrong, or we both could be right.

CypherOz · 09-01-2013, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Poit

It's all speculation at this point, of course, but I read the Ltd's refresh as preparing the way for a 'professional' grade APS-C (as one Pentax exec. let slip earlier in the year). That would make sense to me. If you're about to release a camera and call it 'professional', you would want the other elements of the system (eg lenses and flashes) to be up to professional standard as well.

I'd tend to agree with this. Will the K-5ii replacement has a faster flash X-sync? 1/250 would be nice.
The lens refresh, esp. being the Ltds suggests the high end.

JeffP3456 · 09-01-2013, 09:44 PM

I love living in exciting times!
I am really wondering what pentax will pull out of the hat. Sony has the 24MP sensor, the 20MP sensor and the 16MP sensor with phase detect circuits, and of course the 36MP but not sure if Nikon has exclusive on that.

I don't know, maybe K-02 with 16MP with PD and EVF and a K3 with 24MP?

Where are those damn lotto tickets!

As far as Nikon, I am pretty sure that the CEO is preparing 3 envelopes as we speak...(so to speak)

Prepare 3 Envelopes

As I recall from Econ class, when the supply is high and the demand is low something has to give and that is usually the price, so I expect body prices to continue their downward slide. Lenses, not so sure, they have much longer lifespans.

Kunzite · 09-02-2013, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax? I was merely interested to hear numbers; what was the planned production of the K-01? It was designed to last 12 months, went on fire sale and was selling for months for $400 or thereabouts. My bet is that X100 outsold K-01 in its first and only year, despite being more expensive.

I said it probably was, and judging by the lower initial production volumes and by the fact they had to cut the prices so much, I'm probably right. (note: I didn't explicitly said it, but it's about K-mount volume products...)

The discussion was about if being popular in a DPReview poll is enough for Pentax to emulate its retro look or not. It has nothing to do with the K-01, and trying to build a case around this very particular product won't work.

Originally posted by Uluru

Fuji is exercising a good production strategy with X100/s, similar to Ricoh's re its GR, by keeping the market deliberately undersupplied. Is it hard to admit that Fuji indeed had a much better idea than Pentax, made a great camera that doesn't need any special or fire sale to sell well?

Than which Pentax? K-01? That's irrelevant; Pentax' main line of products are the DSLRs, and despite all that happened (and the not-so-retro look) Pentax is AFAIK selling more DSLRs than FujiFilm large sensor cameras.
The reason for the GR being undersupplied has its roots in the low production volumes of only 5000 units per month (initially), rather than on some smart strategy of not selling products.

Originally posted by Uluru

But if it had a Pentax logo instead of Fuji's, I presume we'd read your endless odes about it, and about the brilliance of Pentax engineers

Oh, yeah, you had to accuse me of some made-up BS.

It appears some people are completely unwilling to discuss their ideas, starting instead with the preconception that they must be right, their ideas unchallenged, and everyone who doesn't immediately agree must be wrong, fanboy or whatever.

And I wasn't even rejecting your idea, just saying it won't necessarily translate into sales... indeed, just having a retro look wouldn't be enough.

froeschle · 09-02-2013, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Live video webcast
RICOH Press Conference
Thursday, September 5, 2013, 3.00 p.m. - 4.00 p.m. CEST

IFA - RICOH Press Conference

Poit · 09-02-2013, 09:59 PM

Cheers mate. So the press conference, at least, has come to fruition.

The nervous tension here is almost tangible...LOL

Uluru · 09-02-2013, 10:53 PM

According to the venue map, Ricoh's exhibition area is right next to exit / entrance: I surely must commend their good strategic thinking about most probable consequences of their press conference

Paul Ewins · 09-03-2013, 12:07 AM

Well you can say one thing for Ricoh, they really run a tight ship. Three days out and we know nothing for certain about what will be announced at the press conference. The new flashes and revised limiteds (admittedly not the most exciting announcement) arrived out of nowhere too. It could be a 645DII, a K3, a K1 or it could just be a new lens cap. We just don't know, or if we do we aren't saying anything either.

09-01-2013, 02:49 PM	#242
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Kunzite Uluru: popularity doen't necessarily translate in sales I'm willing to bet Pentax sells more than Fuji. It is hard to say. But sometime ago, Thom Hogan quoted exact number of X100 cameras sold, and it was in 100K+ number, IIRC. That was for the original, very flawed but still beautiful X100, maybe within a year after the announcement. What has happened now since X100s and in later life of the X100, I don't know, but camera is in constant demand, very hard to find. I wouldn't say it sells in millions, but the number may be good. I think it's the look and appeal that people love, and the right focal length chosen; at least in the West, GR would sell better if it had a 35mm lens. Which makes one wonder why on Earth Pentax doesn't make a damn 35mm lens, or at least does something around DA21 to sell it more. It would be interesting to know how many K-01s Pentax sold. Last edited by Uluru; 09-01-2013 at 02:54 PM.

09-01-2013, 04:08 PM	#246
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Kunzite Yeah, comparing it to the (probably) worst selling Pentax is entirely fair, and would definitely prove it to be an astounding success. Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax? I was merely interested to hear numbers; what was the planned production of the K-01? It was designed to last 12 months, went on fire sale and was selling for months for $400 or thereabouts. My bet is that X100 outsold K-01 in its first and only year, despite being more expensive. Fuji is exercising a good production strategy with X100/s, similar to Ricoh's re its GR, by keeping the market deliberately undersupplied. Is it hard to admit that Fuji indeed had a much better idea than Pentax, made a great camera that doesn't need any special or fire sale to sell well? But if it had a Pentax logo instead of Fuji's, I presume we'd read your endless odes about it, and about the brilliance of Pentax engineers Last edited by Uluru; 09-01-2013 at 04:17 PM.

09-01-2013, 09:44 PM	#250
JeffP3456 Forum Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 64	curiouser and curiouser I love living in exciting times! I am really wondering what pentax will pull out of the hat. Sony has the 24MP sensor, the 20MP sensor and the 16MP sensor with phase detect circuits, and of course the 36MP but not sure if Nikon has exclusive on that. I don't know, maybe K-02 with 16MP with PD and EVF and a K3 with 24MP? Where are those damn lotto tickets! As far as Nikon, I am pretty sure that the CEO is preparing 3 envelopes as we speak...(so to speak) Prepare 3 Envelopes As I recall from Econ class, when the supply is high and the demand is low something has to give and that is usually the price, so I expect body prices to continue their downward slide. Lenses, not so sure, they have much longer lifespans.

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09-01-2013, 02:12 PM	#241
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Originally posted by monochrome God help us if Pentax makes anything. Better to have everyone equally upset over nothing than to have half the Forum singing hosanna and the othre half declaiming dooooom. I can see the upcoming Sony A3000 doing that for the big electronics giant. Then again, what a great way for us Pentaxians to see how the 20 MP sensor works before it trickles down to us in the form of a new camera!

09-01-2013, 03:12 PM	#243
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Yeah, comparing it to the (probably) worst selling Pentax is entirely fair, and would definitely prove it to be an astounding success.

09-01-2013, 03:13 PM	#244
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Uluru GR would sell better if it had a 35mm lens Really? I'd love to get my hands on one - but . . . . Attached Images

09-01-2013, 03:58 PM	#245
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by monochrome Really? I'd love to get my hands on one - but . . . . I've said in the West. Even in film days, 35mm was considered to be perfect wide-normal. But hell will freeze over before Pentax / Ricoh make a 35mm equivalent lens for their current cameras (24mm for APS-C). Call it their Japanese trait of stubborness. Fuji has definitely learned a lesson.

09-01-2013, 05:41 PM	#247
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Uluru Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax? K-m likely was.

09-01-2013, 06:41 PM	#248
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423 Original Poster	Originally posted by mecrox I'm not sure that Ricoh would have refreshed the Limited lenses in the way they have if the only new camera they have in mind is a standard-issue black box. So while a conventional replacement or companion for the K5II is highly likely, I'm hoping for a second, wild-card camera which might be rather different and is very much the small, svelte body specifically intended to match these small prime lenses. Think Canon 100D/SL1 but taken all the way up in terms of sensor, style and materials, and perhaps not even with a mirror. People in the West might think WTF but that wouldn't matter in the least if such a camera were a hit with folks in Asia. That market alone would likely keep Ricoh running at full capacity. Time to starting issuing virtual tokens for virtual bottles of champagne so we can all place our bets ... It's all speculation at this point, of course, but I read the Ltd's refresh as preparing the way for a 'professional' grade APS-C (as one Pentax exec. let slip earlier in the year). That would make sense to me. If you're about to release a camera and call it 'professional', you would want the other elements of the system (eg lenses and flashes) to be up to professional standard as well. Of course, you could be right and I could be wrong, or we both could be right.

09-01-2013, 06:58 PM	#249
CypherOz Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Adelaide Posts: 246	Originally posted by Poit It's all speculation at this point, of course, but I read the Ltd's refresh as preparing the way for a 'professional' grade APS-C (as one Pentax exec. let slip earlier in the year). That would make sense to me. If you're about to release a camera and call it 'professional', you would want the other elements of the system (eg lenses and flashes) to be up to professional standard as well. I'd tend to agree with this. Will the K-5ii replacement has a faster flash X-sync? 1/250 would be nice. The lens refresh, esp. being the Ltds suggests the high end.

09-02-2013, 12:16 AM	#251
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Uluru Who ever said K-01 was the worst selling Pentax? I was merely interested to hear numbers; what was the planned production of the K-01? It was designed to last 12 months, went on fire sale and was selling for months for $400 or thereabouts. My bet is that X100 outsold K-01 in its first and only year, despite being more expensive. I said it probably was, and judging by the lower initial production volumes and by the fact they had to cut the prices so much, I'm probably right. (note: I didn't explicitly said it, but it's about K-mount volume products...) The discussion was about if being popular in a DPReview poll is enough for Pentax to emulate its retro look or not. It has nothing to do with the K-01, and trying to build a case around this very particular product won't work. Originally posted by Uluru Fuji is exercising a good production strategy with X100/s, similar to Ricoh's re its GR, by keeping the market deliberately undersupplied. Is it hard to admit that Fuji indeed had a much better idea than Pentax, made a great camera that doesn't need any special or fire sale to sell well? Than which Pentax? K-01? That's irrelevant; Pentax' main line of products are the DSLRs, and despite all that happened (and the not-so-retro look) Pentax is AFAIK selling more DSLRs than FujiFilm large sensor cameras. The reason for the GR being undersupplied has its roots in the low production volumes of only 5000 units per month (initially), rather than on some smart strategy of not selling products. Originally posted by Uluru But if it had a Pentax logo instead of Fuji's, I presume we'd read your endless odes about it, and about the brilliance of Pentax engineers Oh, yeah, you had to accuse me of some made-up BS. It appears some people are completely unwilling to discuss their ideas, starting instead with the preconception that they must be right, their ideas unchallenged, and everyone who doesn't immediately agree must be wrong, fanboy or whatever. And I wasn't even rejecting your idea, just saying it won't necessarily translate into sales... indeed, just having a retro look wouldn't be enough.

09-02-2013, 02:05 AM	#252
froeschle Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 552	Quote: Live video webcast RICOH Press Conference Thursday, September 5, 2013, 3.00 p.m. - 4.00 p.m. CEST IFA - RICOH Press Conference

09-02-2013, 09:59 PM	#253
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423 Original Poster	Cheers mate. So the press conference, at least, has come to fruition. The nervous tension here is almost tangible...LOL

09-02-2013, 10:53 PM	#254
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	According to the venue map, Ricoh's exhibition area is right next to exit / entrance: I surely must commend their good strategic thinking about most probable consequences of their press conference

09-03-2013, 12:07 AM	#255
Paul Ewins Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 274	Well you can say one thing for Ricoh, they really run a tight ship. Three days out and we know nothing for certain about what will be announced at the press conference. The new flashes and revised limiteds (admittedly not the most exciting announcement) arrived out of nowhere too. It could be a 645DII, a K3, a K1 or it could just be a new lens cap. We just don't know, or if we do we aren't saying anything either.