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09-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #391
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I am not seeing radical improvements in cmos chips at the moment. Progress is incremental. As long as there is not a new technology available you don't need a new camera iq-wise. Maybe an aps-c sized bsi-cmos chip could change that somewhat, but probably not by much, otherwise there would be one allready. The K-3 won't have much better iq than the k-5. A move to full frame on the other hand would be a step forward. Pentax should use this period to perfect AF and develop connectivity options for it's camera's.

09-06-2013, 11:06 AM   #392
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I can see a detoriation here: While the K-5 was based on the K-7, the K-5 II came after 24 months, not 16, and was a minor upgrade compared to K-7 -> K-5.

I'm pretty sure there has been a K-3 in the works for a long time, and that it was supposed to be released at the same time as the K-5 II. It was delayed or scrapped possibly because it used the 24mp sensor of the NEX-7 and that they concluded it didn't offer enough of an IQ advantage over the K-5 (or maybe it even behaved badly with some of the premium Pentax lenses). The pressure in the direction of FF would require them to deliver an APS-C camera that really was a significant upgrade, not just a maybe-better camera with higher resolution. If this was the case, the K-5 II(s) was a very smart move, after all the K-5 IIs gets a lot of praise and sells better than they expected.
I think we need to be honest and say that the biggest upgrade from the K7 to K5 was the fact that Pentax actually got a current generation sensor from Sony (unusual since there seemed to be embargos on them in the past). Auto focus was the same (or worse in some lighting situations), frame rate increased incrementally. Otherwise, I haven't seen a "game changing camera" from Pentax since the K10. Everything else has been about small improvements in specs -- usually pretty far off the current specs available from Canon/Nikon.
09-06-2013, 11:28 AM   #393
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think we need to be honest and say that the biggest upgrade from the K7 to K5 was the fact that Pentax actually got a current generation sensor from Sony (unusual since there seemed to be embargos on them in the past). Auto focus was the same (or worse in some lighting situations), frame rate increased incrementally. Otherwise, I haven't seen a "game changing camera" from Pentax since the K10. Everything else has been about small improvements in specs -- usually pretty far off the current specs available from Canon/Nikon.


I wouldn't make that assessment. I "upgraded" from a K10D to a K-7. I was so disappointed I nearly sold the system. The K-7 image quality is *vastly* inferior to the K10D at low ISOs. The auto focus was disappointingly unchanged from the K10D and less accurate (in really strange and unpredictable ways), and I couldn't get a clear shot at certain shutter speeds because of the much discussed mirror slap issue. A warranty service fixed none of these issues.

The K-5 has addressed all these issues. Low ISO is almost as good as the K10D, the auto focus is responsive and positive, and the mirror slap blur is gone. It was a major upgrade from the K-7, and the enthusiastic reviews of the K-5 is why I took a chance on upgrading. It's the first Pentax camera I can recommend to people without caveats. Want a camera? Buy a K-5, you'll be happy. That's not something I'd say of its predecessors. K10D had great image quality but lackluster auto focus, poor color balance, and a common back-focus problem. The K-7 has no redeeming qualities of any kind as far as I'm concerned.
09-06-2013, 11:36 AM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by bvg Quote
Should be adjustable (black color on default).
It should be available in 120 colors.

09-06-2013, 11:50 AM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I wouldn't make that assessment. I "upgraded" from a K10D to a K-7. I was so disappointed I nearly sold the system. The K-7 image quality is *vastly* inferior to the K10D at low ISOs. The auto focus was disappointingly unchanged from the K10D and less accurate (in really strange and unpredictable ways), and I couldn't get a clear shot at certain shutter speeds because of the much discussed mirror slap issue. A warranty service fixed none of these issues.

The K-5 has addressed all these issues. Low ISO is almost as good as the K10D, the auto focus is responsive and positive, and the mirror slap blur is gone. It was a major upgrade from the K-7, and the enthusiastic reviews of the K-5 is why I took a chance on upgrading. It's the first Pentax camera I can recommend to people without caveats. Want a camera? Buy a K-5, you'll be happy. That's not something I'd say of its predecessors. K10D had great image quality but lackluster auto focus, poor color balance, and a common back-focus problem. The K-7 has no redeeming qualities of any kind as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't think the K7 was that bad, at least not at low iso. Auto focus (tracking) was better than K10 or, K20. Frame rate was a lot faster than previous cameras. The biggest problem with the K7 was the sensor. There were all sorts of threads going around "Ask Pentax for a K7 body with a Kx sensor" and so on. I think the whole mirror slap thing was more of a problem on some cameras than on others, because I just didn't see it with mine. Anyway, certainly comparing a defective K7 with a new K5 would see a huge difference.
09-06-2013, 12:13 PM   #396
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I didn't think the K7 was that bad, at least not at low iso. Auto focus (tracking) was better than K10 or, K20. Frame rate was a lot faster than previous cameras. The biggest problem with the K7 was the sensor. There were all sorts of threads going around "Ask Pentax for a K7 body with a Kx sensor" and so on. I think the whole mirror slap thing was more of a problem on some cameras than on others, because I just didn't see it with mine. Anyway, certainly comparing a defective K7 with a new K5 would see a huge difference.
People blamed its "aggressive AA filter." One of the first firmware upgrades was the fine detail adjustment. Whatever the reason, as someone who likes birding it drove me nuts with its inability to take nice crisp photos. Having the shortest life as the flagship camera, I can't help but wonder if it was pushed out a little too soon with known flaws as a stop gap for the K-5. I feel like I paid to be an unwitting beta tester.
09-06-2013, 12:24 PM   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
People blamed its "aggressive AA filter." One of the first firmware upgrades was the fine detail adjustment. Whatever the reason, as someone who likes birding it drove me nuts with its inability to take nice crisp photos. Having the shortest life as the flagship camera, I can't help but wonder if it was pushed out a little too soon with known flaws as a stop gap for the K-5. I feel like I paid to be an unwitting beta tester.
And the K-x, released not long after, had a much superior sensor.
09-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #398
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K-7 Had a Samsung sensor. I think that when Pentax saw what the A Sony could do in the K-x They quickly developed the K-5 which basically is a K-7 with a new sensor and some other improvements. Had they stayed with Samsung Pentax would be dead by now.

09-06-2013, 02:57 PM   #399
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
You're concerned because some people are bragging about megapixels?

Not too long ago, Nikon were the ones saying "we are not concerned with megapixel count... image quality is more important". I'd say concerning image quality, Pentax is not lacking.
Nikon delivers what is available at the market of sensor tech and gives its users cameras. Users buy and stay with the mount. "Ok, you want FF sensor? Here it is. You want 24 MP ApSC, here it is." In all of this, users experiment with multiple choices, buy different lenses and realise where they want to be, or, where to go.
It is sad to see many Pentax users change system and sell Pentax lenses perfectly capable of higher res APS-C sensors, FF sensors, etc. because they have no cameras to use them with; they were never able to see a bigger picture, the possibility of an existing mount.
And then somebody, like Mr Kawauchi himself, comes in and says their concern is "picture quality not megapixels", while with other hand rewrites all new lens prices, tells us a flat, white lie. What is even worse, that is a very bad excuse for their own procrastination.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-06-2013 at 03:08 PM.
09-06-2013, 03:14 PM - 3 Likes   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nikon delivers what is available at the market of sensor tech and gives its users cameras. Users buy and stay with the mount. "Ok, you want FF sensor? Here it is. You want 24 MP ApSC, here it is." In all of this, users experiment with multiple choices, buy different lenses and realise where they want to be, or, where to go.
It is sad to see many Pentax users change system and sell Pentax lenses perfectly capable of higher res APS-C sensors, FF sensors, etc. because they have no cameras to use them with; they were never able to see a bigger picture, the possibility of an existing mount.
And then somebody, like Mr Kawauchi himself, comes in and says their concern is "picture quality not megapixels", while with other hand rewrites all new lens prices, tells us a flat, white lie. What is even worse, that is a very bad excuse for their own procrastination.

I don't think it's sad at all. I think it's great, because I get really tired of reading this stuff. If you want 135 format, there are 3 very capable camera systems to choose from. Go get one and be happy. Stop telling people how miserable they should be.


This is not constructive criticism on your part.
09-06-2013, 03:21 PM   #401
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nikon delivers what is available at the market of sensor tech and gives its users cameras. Users buy and stay with the mount. "Ok, you want FF sensor? Here it is. You want 24 MP ApSC, here it is." In all of this, users experiment with multiple choices, buy different lenses and realise where they want to be, or, where to go.
It is sad to see many Pentax users change system and sell Pentax lenses perfectly capable of higher res APS-C sensors, FF sensors, etc. because they have no cameras to use them with; they were never able to see a bigger picture, the possibility of an existing mount.
And then somebody, like Mr Kawauchi himself, comes in and says their concern is "picture quality not megapixels", while with other hand rewrites all new lens prices, tells us a flat, white lie. What is even worse, that is a very bad excuse for their own procrastination.
When you think Pentax is holding you back your wrong. But you should sell your gear anyway just to learn that the grass ain't greener.
09-06-2013, 05:20 PM   #402
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
When you think Pentax is holding you back your wrong. But you should sell your gear anyway just to learn that the grass ain't greener.
I simply adore such answers.
I wasn't talking about my gear, and moving on. That is not the point. I was reflecting on a situation — and not trying to apply any forceful answer to it.
09-06-2013, 05:47 PM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
This is not constructive criticism on your part.
In exploration, the quest is for answers that are simple, but not too simple to be ridiculous. So if I’m not happy with a religious zeal of the sorts floating around, which only is able of an oversimplified “shut up and shoot”, “go on jump ship”, "you're too critical", etc. — it isn’t the issue of my unhappiness with Pentax / Ricoh / my equipment, but with your too simple answering.

I use the opportunity to explore and gain insights from official news, obvious lies, promises, deliveries, all of which tell with what kind of company we may be dealing with.
09-06-2013, 05:52 PM   #404
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Urulu, the only religious zeal I see here is from you...
09-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #405
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Looks like the new camera is here. Theta 360......

Now we can start talking about next year.
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