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09-07-2013, 02:28 PM   #436
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
It wasn't meant to be a "fair comparison", it was just meant to show that you may want to start with the kind of photography you want to do and how you want to carry your equipment around, then think about the kind of lenses you need, and then think about which camera system that may suit that purpose and have that kind of lens.

(And besides, while the weight difference isn't that big, the D600 combo is quite a bit bigger)

That's a lot to think about. Especially for a newbie. Unfortunately needs and desires sometimes change.

09-07-2013, 03:03 PM   #437
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
That's a lot to think about. Especially for a newbie. Unfortunately needs and desires sometimes change.
They do, but you got to start somewhere. A colleague of mine was upgrading from a cheap Canon. She didn't have much lenses and thus was open to switching platform. And she was seriously considering the K-5, but she ended up with the D800 precisely because she could get nothing like the 14-24 for Pentax.
09-07-2013, 04:43 PM - 2 Likes   #438
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I don't think it's sad at all. I think it's great, because I get really tired of reading this stuff. If you want 135 format, there are 3 very capable camera systems to choose from. Go get one and be happy. Stop telling people how miserable they should be.


This is not constructive criticism on your part.
I, for one, agree with what Uluru said. And I think it WAS constructive criticism: Constructive criticism is a communication technique intended to identify and find solutions to problems in a positive way.

The problem Uluru identified: people (like myself) are considering and/or actually leaving Pentax because of a lack of action in providing options / diversity in the systems available.

The solution: Extend the range to, at the very least, include a simple FF option that Pentax users have been crying out for, FOR YEARS. Provide at least a semblance of diversity in options available to their users.

I think comments like "if the K5ii doesn't suit your needs then go away and leave us all alone" are not constructive. If everyone here just trumpeted how the K5ii is the perfect, cover-all DSLR, suitable to every photographic and artistic requirement, then it would be a VERY sad day.

For both financial and sentimental reasons I don't want to leave the Pentax system, and I agree with Uluru that it is quite sad people like me are almost being forced away from the brand due to a lack of meaningful response to their customers', and the market's wants and needs.
09-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #439
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
For both financial and sentimental reasons I don't want to leave the Pentax system, and I agree with Uluru that it is quite sad people like me are almost being forced away from the brand due to a lack of meaningful response to their customers', and the market's wants and needs.
Pentax has been financially hamstrung for at least 5 years. Ricoh will get there - perhaps not soon enough to suit many current customers - but there is a lot of work to do yet rebuilding the brand before they allocate the resources to FF. It really is a simple business fact. It just isn't the time yet, much as you, I and probably they wish it was.

09-07-2013, 05:47 PM   #440
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
It wasn't meant to be a "fair comparison", it was just meant to show that you may want to start with the kind of photography you want to do and how you want to carry your equipment around, then think about the kind of lenses you need, and then think about which camera system that may suit that purpose and have that kind of lens.

(And besides, while the weight difference isn't that big, the D600 combo is quite a bit bigger)
Understood. That's a fair point Talking about bodies though, I actually switched to d600 not because of any particular lens, but because it's the only FF I could afford with a dual sd card slot. 6D isnt quite as affordable here and the 5dii AF doesn't exactly have the best reputation.

While I have particular lenses that I actually wish to use, they are either really expensive (Nikon 14-24, Canon 17mm TS) or exist in both mounts (Tokina 11-16, a decent 35mm, 50mm, 85mm prime), so in my case the lenses were actually not a factor, as there is usually an option for everyone these days.

The Nikon flash system actually was a factor, but I probably would have been happy with the Canon had I chosen that.
09-07-2013, 06:12 PM   #441
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
They do, but you got to start somewhere. A colleague of mine was upgrading from a cheap Canon. She didn't have much lenses and thus was open to switching platform. And she was seriously considering the K-5, but she ended up with the D800 precisely because she could get nothing like the 14-24 for Pentax.
From a cheap Canon to a 14-24 is odd. This lens is extremely specialized. Firstly it is expensive and heavy. Secondly one in a thousand images is shot wider than 20mm (on FF). It flares a lot and you can't used many filters on it due to its curving front element. It is a photo journalist lens who want all (well most) wide angles in one. It may be sharp but it certainly comes with lots of drawbacks for general use.
09-07-2013, 06:54 PM   #442
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax has been financially hamstrung for at least 5 years. Ricoh will get there - perhaps not soon enough to suit many current customers - but there is a lot of work to do yet rebuilding the brand before they allocate the resources to FF. It really is a simple business fact. It just isn't the time yet, much as you, I and probably they wish it was.
Amen
09-07-2013, 07:25 PM   #443
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Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line? They've always seemed to have competitive, if not overly better value, segment bodies compared to the others. But they've never had a 1 series camera or a D# competitor. It's that technology thats getting leveraged to make the d800's/5d's that we feel we need. And don't forget how massive the prices on the upper level cameras are. People paying that are paying for the development of them, and it seeps down lower to that level. Then they continue to cut cost on and on down the line until the bottom cameras are crap. Pentax don't make crap cameras. I'm not sure theres a proper step above the exmor 16mp in aps-c yet. They're not going to make a sidegrade, or worse (like the bottom two 24's of nikon). And Canons sensors stamp every single image you take with non-cutting edge performance. If Pentax released an FF with the image quality of those they'd be absolutely decimated by us.

And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras.

09-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #444
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QuoteOriginally posted by bibz Quote
And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras.
That Canon and Nikon make totally crap entry level bodies is not true imo. Pentax is usually better value, and the Canikon is crippled in some ways, but Pentax isn't free of this either. Remember lack of focus points in K-x? I do agree that pentax always tries not to cripple the user when it's not necessary though, The hardware provided almost always seem to be utilized to its full potential, unlike with Nikon (that I know firsthand anyway).

Limited line is pentax's jewel and for the most part have no equivalent in canikon, but the reverse is true as well. Does Pentax have Canon's 17mm TS? Nikon 14-24/2.8? Nikon 105/135mm DC? An affordable 85mm/1.8 with SDM?
09-07-2013, 07:58 PM   #445
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QuoteOriginally posted by bibz Quote
Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line?
Certainly not but ... The closest 'pro' Pentax ever had were 67 and 645 lines medium format film cameras as well as LX/MX system.

More recently 645D is to be seen as a Pro line indeed, in the traditional Pentax way, not in the Canikon way.
09-08-2013, 02:58 AM   #446
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
From a cheap Canon to a 14-24 is odd.
Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?
09-08-2013, 03:46 AM   #447
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?
Strangely enough that lens is also available in K-mount
09-08-2013, 03:50 AM   #448
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?
Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5
09-08-2013, 03:58 AM - 1 Like   #449
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5
Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures.
09-08-2013, 04:02 AM   #450
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures.
I think he was laughing at himself, not so much making a comment on her.
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