New Camera/s by Christmas

ak_kiwi · 09-07-2013, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Pentax has been financially hamstrung for at least 5 years. Ricoh will get there - perhaps not soon enough to suit many current customers - but there is a lot of work to do yet rebuilding the brand before they allocate the resources to FF. It really is a simple business fact. It just isn't the time yet, much as you, I and probably they wish it was.

Amen

bibz · 09-07-2013, 07:25 PM

Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line? They've always seemed to have competitive, if not overly better value, segment bodies compared to the others. But they've never had a 1 series camera or a D# competitor. It's that technology thats getting leveraged to make the d800's/5d's that we feel we need. And don't forget how massive the prices on the upper level cameras are. People paying that are paying for the development of them, and it seeps down lower to that level. Then they continue to cut cost on and on down the line until the bottom cameras are crap. Pentax don't make crap cameras. I'm not sure theres a proper step above the exmor 16mp in aps-c yet. They're not going to make a sidegrade, or worse (like the bottom two 24's of nikon). And Canons sensors stamp every single image you take with non-cutting edge performance. If Pentax released an FF with the image quality of those they'd be absolutely decimated by us.

And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras.

Andi Lo · 09-07-2013, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by bibz

And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras.

That Canon and Nikon make totally crap entry level bodies is not true imo. Pentax is usually better value, and the Canikon is crippled in some ways, but Pentax isn't free of this either. Remember lack of focus points in K-x? I do agree that pentax always tries not to cripple the user when it's not necessary though, The hardware provided almost always seem to be utilized to its full potential, unlike with Nikon (that I know firsthand anyway).

Limited line is pentax's jewel and for the most part have no equivalent in canikon, but the reverse is true as well. Does Pentax have Canon's 17mm TS? Nikon 14-24/2.8? Nikon 105/135mm DC? An affordable 85mm/1.8 with SDM?

thibs · 09-07-2013, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by bibz

Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line?

Certainly not but ...

The closest 'pro' Pentax ever had were 67 and 645 lines medium format film cameras as well as LX/MX system.

More recently 645D is to be seen as a Pro line indeed, in the traditional Pentax way, not in the Canikon way.

gazonk · 09-08-2013, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

From a cheap Canon to a 14-24 is odd.

Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?

D1N0 · 09-08-2013, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?

Strangely enough that lens is also available in K-mount

**Pål Jensen** · 09-08-2013, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?

Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5

gazonk · 09-08-2013, 03:58 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5

Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures.

**Rorschach** · 09-08-2013, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures.

I think he was laughing at himself, not so much making a comment on her.

bibz · 09-08-2013, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by Andi Lo

That Canon and Nikon make totally crap entry level bodies is not true imo. Pentax is usually better value, and the Canikon is crippled in some ways, but Pentax isn't free of this either. Remember lack of focus points in K-x? I do agree that pentax always tries not to cripple the user when it's not necessary though, The hardware provided almost always seem to be utilized to its full potential, unlike with Nikon (that I know firsthand anyway).

Limited line is pentax's jewel and for the most part have no equivalent in canikon, but the reverse is true as well. Does Pentax have Canon's 17mm TS? Nikon 14-24/2.8? Nikon 105/135mm DC? An affordable 85mm/1.8 with SDM?

Yeah I remember the kx's lack of focus points, I loved mine! Taught me to use my eye to see what was in focus. Though made me stuff up a 'just press click' shot setup through a 5d mkII at a wedding. The AF chose a zone that made me put that on the subject instead of framing correctly. Yeah thats easy enough to fix if you know the camera though...

The lens stuff is true too, canikon does have some exotic stuff. But its also extremely expensive(and specialized ala t/s), and occasionally not that good (DC/Plastic primes). Good areas for third party imo! My $300 85 1.4 goes great. Most reliable focussing I've used

bibz · 09-08-2013, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Certainly not but ...

The closest 'pro' Pentax ever had were 67 and 645 lines medium format film cameras as well as LX/MX system.

More recently 645D is to be seen as a Pro line indeed, in the traditional Pentax way, not in the Canikon way.

Ahh yeah, forgot about the 645D. Ironically Pentax went the other way, leveraging their aps-c tech and making a comfortable and affordable MF solution. That they have a brilliant history of. I'm looking for a nice 6x7 as my next camera!

Andi Lo · 09-08-2013, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by bibz

Yeah I remember the kx's lack of focus points, I loved mine! Taught me to use my eye to see what was in focus. Though made me stuff up a 'just press click' shot setup through a 5d mkII at a wedding. The AF chose a zone that made me put that on the subject instead of framing correctly. Yeah thats easy enough to fix if you know the camera though...

The lens stuff is true too, canikon does have some exotic stuff. But its also extremely expensive(and specialized ala t/s), and occasionally not that good (DC/Plastic primes). Good areas for third party imo! My $300 85 1.4 goes great. Most reliable focussing I've used

Just to note when I mention the Nikon 105/135 DC I meant defocus control (ie it can control bokeh, and not the vaseline effect), and they are AF to boot.. Pretty awesome stuff for certain uses, and its actually quite affordable. Like you said they do have some pretty underwhelming stuff build quality wise like the cheap Canon primes; Pentax isn't free of this either though (DA 50/1.8 and 35/2.4). I still dont get why the DA 35 doesnt open to f/2 other than to prevent cannibalization of DA 35/2.8, the lens looks almost exactly the same as FA 35.

In canonikon land third party seem to compete in more price and not in performance (there are exceptions though like some Sigma lenses, and Tamron that makes really lightweight no-frills equivalents)

To go back to the topicccccc I'm looking forward to the new body and hope that it's one step forward for Pentax to regain their mojo. I hope it will be a true D300 / 7D class body with AF to match.

**savoche** · 09-08-2013, 01:26 PM

Ah, yes, the topic. A new body would be great. Maybe it could even make a few people around here sleep easier... For me, though, I can't really think of anything that could make me replace my K-5. It's just too good for that.

Wired · 09-08-2013, 01:52 PM

all I need in a new body is a better LCD screen, one on par with the EM5/D800 at minimum. I've grown to like tilty screens, as long as it doesn't add unnecessary bulk, but its not a major feature. But, a faster buffer/processor for me is top priority, compared to the cameras mentioned earlier the K5 is incredibly laggy to review photos or clear the buffer... I need this updated. FPS should be the same or faster. And MP count around 20-24 would be nice, just so I have more freedom to crop if needed.

and of course keep all the usual K5 feature set...

but one thing, one thing, I would love love love, but I'm not expecting, is a 1/250 max flash sync speed or higher.

**robbiec** · 09-08-2013, 02:41 PM

Just give me a K-5 derivative with an updated sensor with better ISO and Dr handling (big ask I know) and I'll be a happy camper

. I'm saying this as a Pentax K mount supporter and fan who is fairly seriously locked in with my lens selection which includes all of the FA Limiteds, the DA35 limited, as Zeiss 50 macro, a Voightlander 90mm APO and a couple of K's...
S!
Robbie

09-08-2013, 05:43 AM	#447
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by bibz Yeah I remember the kx's lack of focus points, I loved mine! Taught me to use my eye to see what was in focus. Though made me stuff up a 'just press click' shot setup through a 5d mkII at a wedding. The AF chose a zone that made me put that on the subject instead of framing correctly. Yeah thats easy enough to fix if you know the camera though... The lens stuff is true too, canikon does have some exotic stuff. But its also extremely expensive(and specialized ala t/s), and occasionally not that good (DC/Plastic primes). Good areas for third party imo! My $300 85 1.4 goes great. Most reliable focussing I've used Just to note when I mention the Nikon 105/135 DC I meant defocus control (ie it can control bokeh, and not the vaseline effect), and they are AF to boot.. Pretty awesome stuff for certain uses, and its actually quite affordable. Like you said they do have some pretty underwhelming stuff build quality wise like the cheap Canon primes; Pentax isn't free of this either though (DA 50/1.8 and 35/2.4). I still dont get why the DA 35 doesnt open to f/2 other than to prevent cannibalization of DA 35/2.8, the lens looks almost exactly the same as FA 35. In canonikon land third party seem to compete in more price and not in performance (there are exceptions though like some Sigma lenses, and Tamron that makes really lightweight no-frills equivalents) To go back to the topicccccc I'm looking forward to the new body and hope that it's one step forward for Pentax to regain their mojo. I hope it will be a true D300 / 7D class body with AF to match. Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-08-2013 at 05:50 AM.

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09-07-2013, 06:54 PM	#436
ak_kiwi Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Auckland, New Zealand. Posts: 328	Originally posted by monochrome Pentax has been financially hamstrung for at least 5 years. Ricoh will get there - perhaps not soon enough to suit many current customers - but there is a lot of work to do yet rebuilding the brand before they allocate the resources to FF. It really is a simple business fact. It just isn't the time yet, much as you, I and probably they wish it was. Amen

09-07-2013, 07:25 PM	#437
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line? They've always seemed to have competitive, if not overly better value, segment bodies compared to the others. But they've never had a 1 series camera or a D# competitor. It's that technology thats getting leveraged to make the d800's/5d's that we feel we need. And don't forget how massive the prices on the upper level cameras are. People paying that are paying for the development of them, and it seeps down lower to that level. Then they continue to cut cost on and on down the line until the bottom cameras are crap. Pentax don't make crap cameras. I'm not sure theres a proper step above the exmor 16mp in aps-c yet. They're not going to make a sidegrade, or worse (like the bottom two 24's of nikon). And Canons sensors stamp every single image you take with non-cutting edge performance. If Pentax released an FF with the image quality of those they'd be absolutely decimated by us. And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras.

09-07-2013, 07:54 PM	#438
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by bibz And up in this area of high res sensors, lenses have a bigger role then ever. I still think Pentax has the best glass line up in terms of build and price out there. Go use an m50 1.7. Plenty of them out there in still great condition. Find anything comparable to the FA ltd's for the money. You might be able to match them in some areas, but not overall. It seems all people care about is numbers. It's gotta be fast, at this focal length, with this mtf50 whatever. Sharp images aren't difficult anymore. But may be if more instead of better pixels are used in cameras. That Canon and Nikon make totally crap entry level bodies is not true imo. Pentax is usually better value, and the Canikon is crippled in some ways, but Pentax isn't free of this either. Remember lack of focus points in K-x? I do agree that pentax always tries not to cripple the user when it's not necessary though, The hardware provided almost always seem to be utilized to its full potential, unlike with Nikon (that I know firsthand anyway). Limited line is pentax's jewel and for the most part have no equivalent in canikon, but the reverse is true as well. Does Pentax have Canon's 17mm TS? Nikon 14-24/2.8? Nikon 105/135mm DC? An affordable 85mm/1.8 with SDM?

09-07-2013, 07:58 PM	#439
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,947	Originally posted by bibz Has Pentax ever had a digital 'pro' line? Certainly not but ... The closest 'pro' Pentax ever had were 67 and 645 lines medium format film cameras as well as LX/MX system. More recently 645D is to be seen as a Pro line indeed, in the traditional Pentax way, not in the Canikon way.

09-08-2013, 02:58 AM	#440
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Pål Jensen From a cheap Canon to a 14-24 is odd. Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end?

09-08-2013, 03:46 AM	#441
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,763	Originally posted by gazonk Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end? Strangely enough that lens is also available in K-mount

09-08-2013, 03:50 AM	#442
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,351	Originally posted by gazonk Maybe not if I tell you that the Canon was mostly used with the Sigma 8-16 at the wide end? Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5

09-08-2013, 03:58 AM - 1 Like	#443
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Shes probably a very bad photographer. At least I was back when my most used lens was the Pentax 18/3.5 Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures.

09-08-2013, 04:02 AM	#444
Rorschach Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kuusamo, Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 652	Originally posted by gazonk Not a nice comment. Many amateur photographers have their own niches of photography they like to explore. Don't laugh when you haven't even seen their pictures. I think he was laughing at himself, not so much making a comment on her.

09-08-2013, 04:35 AM	#445
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Originally posted by Andi Lo That Canon and Nikon make totally crap entry level bodies is not true imo. Pentax is usually better value, and the Canikon is crippled in some ways, but Pentax isn't free of this either. Remember lack of focus points in K-x? I do agree that pentax always tries not to cripple the user when it's not necessary though, The hardware provided almost always seem to be utilized to its full potential, unlike with Nikon (that I know firsthand anyway). Limited line is pentax's jewel and for the most part have no equivalent in canikon, but the reverse is true as well. Does Pentax have Canon's 17mm TS? Nikon 14-24/2.8? Nikon 105/135mm DC? An affordable 85mm/1.8 with SDM? Yeah I remember the kx's lack of focus points, I loved mine! Taught me to use my eye to see what was in focus. Though made me stuff up a 'just press click' shot setup through a 5d mkII at a wedding. The AF chose a zone that made me put that on the subject instead of framing correctly. Yeah thats easy enough to fix if you know the camera though... The lens stuff is true too, canikon does have some exotic stuff. But its also extremely expensive(and specialized ala t/s), and occasionally not that good (DC/Plastic primes). Good areas for third party imo! My $300 85 1.4 goes great. Most reliable focussing I've used

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09-08-2013, 04:38 AM	#446
bibz Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Newcastle, AU! Posts: 276	Originally posted by thibs Certainly not but ... The closest 'pro' Pentax ever had were 67 and 645 lines medium format film cameras as well as LX/MX system. More recently 645D is to be seen as a Pro line indeed, in the traditional Pentax way, not in the Canikon way. Ahh yeah, forgot about the 645D. Ironically Pentax went the other way, leveraging their aps-c tech and making a comfortable and affordable MF solution. That they have a brilliant history of. I'm looking for a nice 6x7 as my next camera!

09-08-2013, 01:26 PM	#448
savoche Insanely humble Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Lowlands of Norway Posts: 17,934	Ah, yes, the topic. A new body would be great. Maybe it could even make a few people around here sleep easier... For me, though, I can't really think of anything that could make me replace my K-5. It's just too good for that.

09-08-2013, 01:52 PM	#449
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	all I need in a new body is a better LCD screen, one on par with the EM5/D800 at minimum. I've grown to like tilty screens, as long as it doesn't add unnecessary bulk, but its not a major feature. But, a faster buffer/processor for me is top priority, compared to the cameras mentioned earlier the K5 is incredibly laggy to review photos or clear the buffer... I need this updated. FPS should be the same or faster. And MP count around 20-24 would be nice, just so I have more freedom to crop if needed. and of course keep all the usual K5 feature set... but one thing, one thing, I would love love love, but I'm not expecting, is a 1/250 max flash sync speed or higher.

09-08-2013, 02:41 PM	#450
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,848	Just give me a K-5 derivative with an updated sensor with better ISO and Dr handling (big ask I know) and I'll be a happy camper . I'm saying this as a Pentax K mount supporter and fan who is fairly seriously locked in with my lens selection which includes all of the FA Limiteds, the DA35 limited, as Zeiss 50 macro, a Voightlander 90mm APO and a couple of K's... S! Robbie