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09-09-2013, 08:04 AM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by ;2504062:
You're missing a few alternatives here. A lot of us don't devote a lot of time to brand. Why would anyone be a supporter of a company, that basically wants as much of your money as it can pry from you? Locked in? please... what a bad analogy. Comparing people who have been kidnapped against their will to people who use a particular brand of camera is completely out of line. People buy into Pentax freely, and they can leave whenever they want. The analogy is as insulting as it is meaningless. Like saying someone has been brainwashed. It assume, that there is a value to be gained in changing brands that will be worth the effort and research involved. When in fact it's just as likely that the research is a waste of time, you're going to be happy with any major brand, and your research is just time wasted comparing roughly equal products.
I think it's like being stuck with a residence that you have spent alot of money on for renovations, but may not suit you so well anymore. It's hard to let go of it due to various reasons, but really you may (or may not) do better if you do so and move. Letting it go isnt as easy as selling a car as you have personally invested money and emotion to this thing that you have enjoyed for some time.

I'm currently undergoing the process of clearing out my pentax gear and while it's not as taxing or expensive as some people say, it's definitely not "free." It hurts putting gear that's given me so many enjoyable images in boxes out to other addresses, and during the time I had both systems' full range of lenses, it was alot of money out of the pocket.

Why am I going out of the topic again? I think I'll stay out of this thread until we have more info

09-09-2013, 08:22 AM   #467
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
sell the Zeiss and 80-200 and buy the 70-200 VRII?
You could just buy another guitar.
09-09-2013, 08:39 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You could just buy another guitar.
lol, you know I would but I'm full on guitars right now. literately no more room to store them.... I did buy a new amp tho...
09-09-2013, 09:18 AM   #469
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QuoteQuote:
So, are you a Pentax supporter or are you just locked in? Because being both would indicate a case of Stockholm syndrome or "golden handcuffs", as they call it.
Well, this certainly sheds light on some truly bizzare posts here recently. While I'm interested in where Pentax is headed, reading all the vitriol-laced, ridiculing, demeaning, hate-filled posts just to find a few nuggets of actual relevant information is just not worth it for me.

I'm out.

09-09-2013, 09:33 AM - 3 Likes   #470
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Maybe drug addiction is a better analogy?
So the physical withdrawal symptoms of drug addiction are equivalent to what in this analogy?

Some people are never happy with anything, they try one thing then another because to them they are addicted to change, and unable to appreciate what they have. SO are people comparing people who change systems to drug addicts trying stronger drugs?. Are people comparing people with more than one system to polygamous men, or people who cheat on their main squeeze? Analogies can be used both ways.. you seem to favour the ones that cast people who are happy with their Pentax gear in a bad light. I could be happy with Nikon gear or Canon gear. But the luck of the draw has meant I'm happy with Pentax gear. That is not an addiction, or a disease. Until you understand that, your analogies trashing Pentax users will be unwelcome and offensive.
09-09-2013, 10:12 AM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Please do remember that I was responding to somebody admitting to be very well locked into the Pentax system due to his collection of K-mount lenses.

Maybe Stockholm Syndrome is over the top, true... Maybe drug addiction is a better analogy? An addict makes a consious decision when taking the first dosages too. But sooner or later, they're unable to back out. And yes, some people have so many gear from just one single brand that it makes the assignment of switching or adding systems become unimaginably huge, costly and unjustifyable. There's plenty around here in PF.

If not for users being locked in due to mount incompatibility, users would have just mounted their FA ltds on any other brand that provided what they wanted ages ago. Nobody here would be crying out for new or other gear as they are doing now.
You are never truly locked into a system, because you can sell lenses and move to a different system. But, there is a sense in which there will be a learning curve necessary to do so and some people don't truly need more than what Pentax currently offers and so they stick with what they have. That's not the same as being an "addict." My experience is that people who truly need something that Pentax doesn't offer (longer glass, full frame, fill in the blank) just move on to Nikon or Canon (without extended good bye posts) and put their gear up for sale on the marketplace or elsewhere. Obviously Robbiec is pretty happy with Pentax and with his current stable of glass, he just wants some small changes to the flagship body.
09-09-2013, 10:24 AM   #472
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Exactly.... so go for the lenses I think I might. the question is... Q7, DA 15, DA 35, Go Pro Hero 3.... or Q7 & DA*60-250?
If you don't have the DA15 and DA35 (ltd?) you're missing something, I'd choose that. But maybe I would have said the same about the 60-250 if I had it...
09-09-2013, 10:28 AM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
If you don't have the DA15 and DA35 (ltd?) you're missing something, I'd choose that. But maybe I would have said the same about the 60-250 if I had it...
I don't shoot much further than 135mm or have a need too unless I'm going ultra tele, so the Bigma wants to join my collection there...but the 60-250 is a nicer lens. I'm doing more wide work with my other systems and wondered why I don't go wide or enjoy wide on my Pentax... well it's because I have no wide primes!!!

I'm gonna get a 15 and the Q7 for sure. I'll decide later on the 35...



09-09-2013, 01:16 PM   #474
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The 15 Ltd is a beauty. I use it on the K-5 for group shots at weddings. Much sharper edge-to-edge and without the distortion of the DA* 16-50.
09-10-2013, 06:58 PM   #475
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QuoteOriginally posted by polachekphotography Quote
The 15 Ltd is a beauty. I use it on the K-5 for group shots at weddings. Much sharper edge-to-edge and without the distortion of the DA* 16-50.
DA15 and DA70 .. are simply magical.
09-11-2013, 12:50 AM - 2 Likes   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You are never truly locked into a system, because you can sell lenses and move to a different system. But, there is a sense in which there will be a learning curve necessary to do so and some people don't truly need more than what Pentax currently offers and so they stick with what they have. That's not the same as being an "addict." My experience is that people who truly need something that Pentax doesn't offer (longer glass, full frame, fill in the blank) just move on to Nikon or Canon (without extended good bye posts) and put their gear up for sale on the marketplace or elsewhere. Obviously Robbiec is pretty happy with Pentax and with his current stable of glass, he just wants some small changes to the flagship body.
True. But I think it becomes more obvious if the word "system" is replaced by "set of compromises".

My Pentax equipment comprises a set of compromises of weight, size, speed (fps, AF), flexibility, resilience (WR etc), lens range, ease of use (IBIS), cost, etc. Any other brand would offer a different set of compromises, but still compromises.

There isn't one of the Pentax set of compromises which is totally incompatible with the sort of photography I want to do. So I don't currently need to switch brands, which would solve that particular problem but bring along other problems. But that doesn't mean such unacceptable compromises won't arise in future as my photography evolves. And there are various current compromises that I would prefer not to put up with.

For each current compromise I have at least a vague plan. Sometimes this involves "hope that Ricoh/Pentax do something about it!" That is a reason why I study roadmaps and (sad!) rumours and workarounds from other companies. This isn't addiction to a brand. It is a sort of personal roadmap (perhaps realistic, perhaps not) towards a smaller set of compromises.
09-11-2013, 01:09 AM   #477
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
True. But I think it becomes more obvious if the word "system" is replaced by "set of compromises".

My Pentax equipment comprises a set of compromises of weight, size, speed (fps, AF), flexibility, resilience (WR etc), lens range, ease of use (IBIS), cost, etc. Any other brand would offer a different set of compromises, but still compromises.

There isn't one of the Pentax set of compromises which is totally incompatible with the sort of photography I want to do. So I don't currently need to switch brands, which would solve that particular problem but bring along other problems. But that doesn't mean such unacceptable compromises won't arise in future as my photography evolves. And there are various current compromises that I would prefer not to put up with.

For each current compromise I have at least a vague plan. Sometimes this involves "hope that Ricoh/Pentax do something about it!" That is a reason why I study roadmaps and (sad!) rumours and workarounds from other companies. This isn't addiction to a brand. It is a sort of personal roadmap (perhaps realistic, perhaps not) towards a smaller set of compromises.
This sums up my situation better than anything I could have expressed. Actually, I sometimes do feel convinced that I picked the wrong system: Bird photography is my main interest, and slow / imprecise AF, lacking of tracking and shortage of affordable long tele lenses all tell me I should have picked another brand. On the other hand, I LOVE my DA* 300mm f4 for its solidity, sharpness and pretty bokeh - it's just too short. My current compromise is using a 1.7x TC and cropping more than I ought to. My immediate roadmap is upgrading the house until the AF kills fewer opportunities and cropping begins to hurt less (I think the optical limitations of my 300mm are less of an issue than the limitations of the k5 sensor at the moment).

I am aware of the option of switching. But being budget limited, it would take a while before I could replace my 300mm with a (longer) Canon/Nikon lens of the same quality. Budget limitations do lock you down a bit. On the plus side, I have weather resistance and in-house stabilisation which matter a lot in bird photography.

(And, as a side note, if anyone would like to sell me the FA* 250-600mm vintage lens at a price significantly lower than that of my car - send me a pm! :-D)
09-11-2013, 08:04 AM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
This sums up my situation better than anything I could have expressed. Actually, I sometimes do feel convinced that I picked the wrong system: Bird photography is my main interest, and slow / imprecise AF, lacking of tracking and shortage of affordable long tele lenses all tell me I should have picked another brand. On the other hand, I LOVE my DA* 300mm f4 for its solidity, sharpness and pretty bokeh - it's just too short. My current compromise is using a 1.7x TC and cropping more than I ought to. My immediate roadmap is upgrading the house until the AF kills fewer opportunities and cropping begins to hurt less (I think the optical limitations of my 300mm are less of an issue than the limitations of the k5 sensor at the moment).

I am aware of the option of switching. But being budget limited, it would take a while before I could replace my 300mm with a (longer) Canon/Nikon lens of the same quality. Budget limitations do lock you down a bit. On the plus side, I have weather resistance and in-house stabilisation which matter a lot in bird photography.

(And, as a side note, if anyone would like to sell me the FA* 250-600mm vintage lens at a price significantly lower than that of my car - send me a pm! :-D)
I really like the idea of "set of compromises". It really describes the situation much better than any of the metaphors we had so far

AFAIK the situation with longer glass in other mounts are the same, it's also about $$$ / mm. At the moment the best crop bodies with high FPS from both companies are already 4 years old (7D and D300), so you'd be wise to wait before switching. For AF you will gain considerably over the K-5 but not in anything else, long glass in canikon is still expensive anyway, but perhaps you'd do better with getting any particular lens you want in the used market as there are more floating around.

Perhaps Pentax will release a really good TC or an affordabe DA 400, and the chirstmas camera has great af
09-11-2013, 08:43 AM   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
This sums up my situation better than anything I could have expressed. Actually, I sometimes do feel convinced that I picked the wrong system: Bird photography is my main interest, and slow / imprecise AF, lacking of tracking and shortage of affordable long tele lenses all tell me I should have picked another brand. On the other hand, I LOVE my DA* 300mm f4 for its solidity, sharpness and pretty bokeh - it's just too short. My current compromise is using a 1.7x TC and cropping more than I ought to. My immediate roadmap is upgrading the house until the AF kills fewer opportunities and cropping begins to hurt less (I think the optical limitations of my 300mm are less of an issue than the limitations of the k5 sensor at the moment).
Bird photography is something I started to take seriously just this year, and I am feeling the same problems that you describe. I bought the Sigma 500mm f/4.5 APO EX DG to help, but would rather have bought a lighter Pentax WR lens.

I too like the DA* 300mm f/4, and bought mine with the expectation that I would supplement it with the 1.4x Teleconverter on the roadmap. I wish ....

QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I really like the idea of "set of compromises". It really describes the situation much better than any of the metaphors we had so far

AFAIK the situation with longer glass in other mounts are the same, it's also about $$$ / mm. At the moment the best crop bodies with high FPS from both companies are already 4 years old (7D and D300), so you'd be wise to wait before switching. For AF you will gain considerably over the K-5 but not in anything else, long glass in canikon is still expensive anyway, but perhaps you'd do better with getting any particular lens you want in the used market as there are more floating around.

Perhaps Pentax will release a really good TC or an affordabe DA 400, and the chirstmas camera has great af
For me, a really good 1.4x Teleconverter would make my 300mm f/4 into an affordable 420mm lens - because I already have the 300mm lens! And if Pentax launches a camera before Christmas that has "great AF", (fast, accurate, several points near the middle), and isn't worse than the K-5IIs in any respect, I will buy it.

But more fps, (for example, switchable between 5 fps and 10 fps), and more pixels, (because I sometimes crop up to half the pixels and still want to print at A3+ or larger and would like more headroom), would make that a super camera.
09-12-2013, 06:15 AM   #480
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If I spent $6-10K for a lens I could get what I wanted. But for $2.5k I get a weather proof body and lens, 300mm. I would like focus to be a bit better, it is a bit short, but otherwise IQ is great and the limits of what I can get are my skill.

A friend has the very nice Nikkor 300 2.8 with an extender. On his D7000 focus was ok, lots of missed shots. His new D7100 has the capability to match the lens, but he is frustrated by the buffer size. He could go bigger, a D800 or D600, but those are large and heavy bodies, and considerably more expensive. I'll compare the apc-s Pentax that I hope we will see this fall to his stuff, and I suspect that I won't be disappointed.

Wildlife is about getting close and being there. Equipment helps, but only if you are there and close.
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