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09-16-2013, 07:16 AM   #586
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Hey truth hurts. If we're to delete all the 585 posts not containing any facts, rumors or gossip directly related to the cameras that Pentax is going to market by Christmas, then we end up with exactly 1 opening post only.

09-16-2013, 07:33 AM - 1 Like   #587
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True. At least as long as you guys keep arguing about unrelated stuff, I get this very temporary little hopefull thrill every time I see that there is a new post on the rumour thread...

And I suppose I am returning the favour now with my own last two completely rumour-free posts!
09-16-2013, 07:51 AM - 2 Likes   #588
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetteHHH Quote
True. At least as long as you guys keep arguing about unrelated stuff, I get this very temporary little hopefull thrill every time I see that there is a new post on the rumour thread...

And I suppose I am returning the favour now with my own last two completely rumour-free posts!


bump for thrill
09-16-2013, 08:16 AM   #589
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Ed Thomas has posted another good video, that somehow summarises last few years of expectations (especially current moments):

September 5th Vlog - YouTube
LOL! "standing there with a Canon camera!" HA! That's sad & funny at the same time.

09-16-2013, 08:34 AM   #590
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The lack of WR gets totally overschadowed by the fact that the smaller format camera NEEDS that pro studio perfect lighting and pro models to perform as the bigger brothers. In photography WR doesn't tend to be as important as IQ. A D600 or D6 can be given WR with a plastic baggy and rubber band costing around $0.02. The really big spenders can do it a $5.- rain sleeve.

"Look! This Fiat Panda can do 200km/h, when going downhill, wheighed down, with the perfect wind speed and wind direction, and in the slipstream of an Audi A6." Such a demonstration only tells me it's not going to be able to do the same under less then ideal conditions and the Audi A6 probably is. It only confirms its inferiority. That the Panda can be parked in half a spot then gets totally overshadowed by the previous fact. People are just going to search for a better spot.

But you're right, I see now how it works on some people.
I have an A6 quattro...but also an A8 quattro and there is a difference, believe me, that A8 baby is a keeper ;-)

(Disclaimer before anybody gets too envious: these are 1998 and 1995 models, respectively :-)
09-16-2013, 10:28 AM   #591
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Well, what if our houses are not made to endure a direct impact of the tsunami wave, or an earthquake of the magnitude 10 on a Richter's scale, or a direct impact of the 15 gigatons nuclear bomb explosion?

All products are designed to work well within certain reasonable specs, and within certain tolerances that make common sense. Understanding of them, understanding of the nature of our work and aligning them together, makes one a professional minded photographer as opposed to a wild-guessing amateur.

In the case of Olympus, what was pointed out is the education of studio photographers and showing them new options. In a studio, a photographer wastes very little energy, keeps all under control, everything is monitored, nothing unpredictable, etc. so for that kind of environment, even a modern m4/3 camera will do the work well and one needs no more than that.

But the problem arises is when newbies to photography start taking extreme scenarios into account, and based on it compile a list for their "required gear"; then most of the time, a rugged FF is the "only way" for them. Then even HD DA Limiteds aren't enough, but must be weather sealed. Kit lenses must be bomb-proof. Camera must be nuclear-fuel powered and one charge enough for 50 years of use. Etc.

All of a sudden, nothing is good enough anymore. It is same as when some paranoid home construction company decides to make all their houses absolutely earthquake-proof, fire-proof, water-proof, etc. Which is ridiculous, of course, because each house would be a bomb shelter house.

Newbies have such an attitude because they have no established line of work, no accumulated experience, and don't know how to control the risk and live with it.
You forgot the
09-16-2013, 12:35 PM   #592
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
In all fairness to Olympus and m4/3 users, Pentax users are the last ones that should be pointing towards limitations of any other group or a system. It just sounds .. ridiculous, coming from our own camp that lives in fantasy land of big expectations.
Well, one of the main reasons why Olympus has come under shareholder pressure lately was their model line was over laden with far too many models. Pentax, OTOH has been a restrained company i that respect.

Olympus has also tried saturation strategies with older models swamped into the bargain bins and newer models priced too high for value. I've never seen that type of inventory management from Pentax (except the Q a wee bit lately,but even that was nothing like some of the EP series I've literally seen in a bargain bin).

Remember: Olympus was forced out of the SLR biz decades ago. Pentax always stayed in. Olympus has often failed when punching above its weight class. Pentax has always stayed well within. They have very different philosophies.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 09-16-2013 at 04:31 PM.
09-16-2013, 02:24 PM   #593
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Remember: Olympus was forced out of the SLR biz decades ago. Pentax always stayed in. Olympus has often failed when punching above its weight class. Pentax has always stayed well within. They have very different philosophies.
Pentax was once *the* camera brand. When Nikon's and Canon's cameras weren't so close. A first brand ever to reach 10 million lenses made, was seen everywhere, etc.

Today's Pentax brand is a shadow of its former self, so I don't know what is exactly their league, or have they never tried to punch above?
Pentax surely did intend to punch above with several film cameras, especially when their position dropped down, and everyone was expecting them to come back again. They did try to have the FF digital among the first. Pentax surely does punch now with the K5, etc.

Thus maybe they are not over-saturating the market because they know that even if they go through its fire, they wouldn't survive the smoke. Their lungs aren't big enough anymore.

And once former Asahi's division was bought by Hoya, in reality, Pentax did go out of business. However, those moves done then, a series of last recorded brilliant moves, were the last straw that is somehow still keeping them alive and on people's radars.

09-16-2013, 02:49 PM   #594
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Yeah, but they did the "popular" route, not the "pro" - their best selling cameras being the Spotmatic and the K1000.
They didn't tried to punch above Olympus style, I remember the 4/3 launch - Oly was touting the new system and the E1 as "pro", and they launched some excellent, expensive Zuiko lenses to match their claims (including a 300 f/2.8). From their press release: "Four Thirds is the first professional standard for digital SLR photography". And, unlike Pentax, heavy marketing was involved.
Now, Olympus appears to be trying again the "pro with small sensor" approach, with the E-M1 - "a compact system camera as powerful as a professional DSLR".

Pentax had a very different approach; the *istD, followed by multiple variations until we got really bored; only after the amazing K10D they started the DA* line. Too late to save them from Hoya.
IMO their best game would be a continuous series of well-placed (even if not strongest) punches. Like those who kept them alive, but not only now and then
09-16-2013, 04:41 PM   #595
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Now, Olympus appears to be trying again the "pro with small sensor" approach, with the E-M1 - "a compact system camera as powerful as a professional DSLR".
People buy by price. Olympus is trying sell against the concept that price will be a function of the sensor size, not feature set.

Thy will sell well initially to loyalists, then sales will fall off a cliff as people realize they don't need all the esoteric features and can get better IQ for a lot less.

Small sensor + big features = low volume

Bigger sensor + middle features = higher volume

All you need in the latter is to be just close enough in features to the tope-nd to steal huge chunks of their biz.

Can you say WR and 2 control wheels and a pentaprism?
09-16-2013, 04:59 PM   #596
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Small sensor + big features = low volume Bigger sensor + middle features = higher volume
Maybe. Assuming a customer that understands the feature set and can see the difference in image quality. For the inexperienced buyer trying to make a decision it usually comes down to who has a better specification within a particular price bracket. When comparing two seemingly identical cameras and having no idea how to choose, the one with the higher MP, or faster FPS, or bigger LCD screen or any of a dozen other mostly irrelevant specifications will be used to make a decision. This is where a marketing driven company succeeds over an engineering driven company. By presenting a message to the consumer that makes their product appear different enough to trigger a buying decision over the competition.

In Costco there are two huge pyramids of camera boxes. Which one do I buy? They look the same, they cost about the same, how do I decide? Ultimately it doesn't really matter to the buyer, they will be happy with either but they don't know that. They just want some fact that allows them to make a simple decision. And I am not sure how many buyers will understand the difference between "fantastic APS-C sensor" and "fantastic full frame sensor". I think for most of the buying public that is just words on the box that mean nothing to them.
09-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #597
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe. Assuming a customer that understands the feature set and can see the difference in image quality. For the inexperienced buyer trying to make a decision it usually comes down to who has a better specification within a particular price bracket. When comparing two seemingly identical cameras and having no idea how to choose, the one with the higher MP, or faster FPS, or bigger LCD screen or any of a dozen other mostly irrelevant specifications will be used to make a decision. This is where a marketing driven company succeeds over an engineering driven company. By presenting a message to the consumer that makes their product appear different enough to trigger a buying decision over the competition.

In Costco there are two huge pyramids of camera boxes. Which one do I buy? They look the same, they cost about the same, how do I decide? Ultimately it doesn't really matter to the buyer, they will be happy with either but they don't know that. They just want some fact that allows them to make a simple decision. And I am not sure how many buyers will understand the difference between "fantastic APS-C sensor" and "fantastic full frame sensor". I think for most of the buying public that is just words on the box that mean nothing to them.
There aren't many inexperienced buyers shelling out $1700 for a camera and lens. At least I hope not.
09-16-2013, 05:50 PM   #598
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe. Assuming a customer that understands the feature set and can see the difference in image quality. For the inexperienced buyer trying to make a decision it usually comes down to who has a better specification within a particular price bracket. When comparing two seemingly identical cameras and having no idea how to choose, the one with the higher MP, or faster FPS, or bigger LCD screen or any of a dozen other mostly irrelevant specifications will be used to make a decision. This is where a marketing driven company succeeds over an engineering driven company. By presenting a message to the consumer that makes their product appear different enough to trigger a buying decision over the competition.
Yes...and no.

The EM-1 is a $1399 camera and a K-50 is $699 camera with a bigger sensor.

It's a VERY expensive camera and to make full use of the smaller sensor you need pricey lenses.So you're over $2,000 right off with the new lens.

The only thing Olympus has going for it are the super-stocked specs and the modest smaller size. They're chasing away 80% of the market where there are "close enough" options for much less cash.

If Olympus is trying to turn themselves into a low volume, high end supplier they have their work cut out for them. A small sensor is a tiny slice of the market is going to be volatile.
09-16-2013, 07:03 PM   #599
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QuoteOriginally posted by halfspin Quote
Don't screw with the K-5's body design.
Would half an inch taller so I could hold it comfortably without the grip count as "screwing with" the design"? I'm tired of of choosing between getting cramps in my hand or my wrist/forearm.
09-16-2013, 08:24 PM   #600
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The lack of WR gets totally overschadowed by the fact that the smaller format camera NEEDS that pro studio perfect lighting and pro models to perform as the bigger brothers. In photography WR doesn't tend to be as important as IQ. A D600 or D6 can be given WR with a plastic baggy and rubber band costing around $0.02. The really big spenders can do it a $5.- rain sleeve.
.
Or you can spend $0 because the D600 is WR already...
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