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09-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #601
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Since you write "viewfinder" i assume you use a DSLR....you do know that you can use one of these, right?
You know I was looking at those on eBay one day. I wasn't sure how well they worked but they are cheap enough, so I may just go ahead and get one and give it a try!

09-16-2013, 11:57 PM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by penguinsoda Quote
You know I was looking at those on eBay one day. I wasn't sure how well they worked but they are cheap enough, so I may just go ahead and get one and give it a try!
I do not know that specific brand, I confess, but I have and use both an (older than dirt) Olympus OM right-angle-viewfinder, and a (more recent) Pentax branded one, and it is really a nice piece of accessory.
09-17-2013, 05:40 AM   #603
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Just got back from a week at Yellowstone. Saw quite a number of brand new (strap still shiny with creases in it) D800's and D600's along with quite a few Canon 5DmkIII's proudly carried by parents shooting pictures of little jimmy and ginny. So, yeah there are quite a few people who when they want a camera they buy the best, and that often means "whichever one costs the most" cause they don't have a clue. I'm not saying these folks were inexperienced, just that for what they were doing a good P&S or bridge camera or a M4/3 would have done just as well and been a lot less work to haul around.

Also saw plenty of pros (or enthusiasts) at sites with wildlife. Easily spotted by having a Nikon 800mm and a sherpa . At one spot where a wolf was rumored to be feeding I estimate there was over $100,000 of camera equipment setup along the road. And I think that is a VERY conservative estimate.
I doubt those people you saw went to Yellowstone just so they could take pictures of their kids. Do you think maybe they used FF DSLRs to take those pictures because it happened to be what they were carrying? I know if I'm on a vacation using my DSLR, I don't put it away and pull out my iPhone to snap a picture of my wife or whomever.
09-17-2013, 06:22 AM   #604
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I doubt those people you saw went to Yellowstone just so they could take pictures of their kids. Do you think maybe they used FF DSLRs to take those pictures because it happened to be what they were carrying? I know if I'm on a vacation using my DSLR, I don't put it away and pull out my iPhone to snap a picture of my wife or whomever.
In my office, the younger executives regularly comment that they purchased the best camera and lenses (or whatever else) because, well, "We want to record these moments. They're our children and we'll never have these moments again." To their credit, many of them have shown me quite stunning photographs, well beyond mere snapshots.

It is a generational thing, and it is very real. Especially among the young families who have the cash to visit Yellowstone or Yosemite as a family experience for their pre-teens - which, in fact, they do actually do.

09-17-2013, 06:38 AM   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In my office, the younger executives regularly comment that they purchased the best camera and lenses (or whatever else) because, well, "We want to record these moments. They're our children and we'll never have these moments again." To their credit, many of them have shown me quite stunning photographs, well beyond mere snapshots.
Spot on. Wanting to take better pictures of my newborn daughter was exactly what triggered me to upgrade to a DSLR in the first place. It's a salesperson in a b&m store that was quite enthusiastic about Pentax who steered me to the K10D back then. He boasted it was the very best I could get with my budget at that time. And he was correct.
09-17-2013, 06:39 AM   #606
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QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Would half an inch taller so I could hold it comfortably without the grip count as "screwing with" the design"? I'm tired of of choosing between getting cramps in my hand or my wrist/forearm.
Without the grip?! I can only think of one thing that fits better in my hand.
09-17-2013, 06:43 AM   #607
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Looking at the number of people in the market place dumping their whole Pentax kit... and really good quality stuff, I'm guessing if Pentax doesn't come out with something impressive before Christmas, they may end up dead in the water. These guys that have laid out thousands for lenses are not the guys you want migrating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dumping my gear, but I'm in a niche. I'm not sure Pentax can make a living on guys like me. At this point, I see myself 5 years down the road as one of those guys now shooting with the original 5D. My k-5 will still do what it does now... and that will still be fine...but there's no buz around Pentax. I'm asking myself, the K-5 was at one time the best APS-c in the business, but now easily surpassed in many ways by the D7100. Some guys who shoot much the same way I do have already migrated to the D7100 for more resolution and faster AF. Hoya, bought Pentax, inflated their worth by cutting research and maximizing sales, probably knowing full well that creating a black column on the ledger sheet was temporary. Ricoh, probably paid too much for the company based on the inflated ledger balance, and found they had a company with inventory but no R&D, compared to the big boys. I'm using 2 k-5s, and the K-5 II cameras did not give me enough to want to upgrade.

It makes me wonder, what will my next camera body be? When I upgrade in a year or two will there even be a Pentax body I'm interested in? Or is it K-5 forever for my Pentax gear and I end up like the old guys with the 5Ds, shooting 5 to 7 year old gear?
09-17-2013, 07:38 AM   #608
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In my office, the younger executives regularly comment that they purchased the best camera and lenses (or whatever else) because, well, "We want to record these moments. They're our children and we'll never have these moments again." To their credit, many of them have shown me quite stunning photographs, well beyond mere snapshots.

It is a generational thing, and it is very real. Especially among the young families who have the cash to visit Yellowstone or Yosemite as a family experience for their pre-teens - which, in fact, they do actually do.
This thread is making me think the market share for FF DSLRs is going up very fast. Anyone know the last reported figure?


Last edited by IchabodCrane; 09-17-2013 at 08:03 AM.
09-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #609
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This is why I'd much rather shoot with my Pentax than Nikon. The larger body size and weight of the Nikon doesn't bother me that much, but going out and about with a comprehensive kit is a different matter altogether. Nikon lenses are so bulky, I can scarcely get three in my camera bag, whereas, I can carry six or, at a pinch, eight of my Pentax lenses, including the 60-250mm and the 300mm f4.
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09-17-2013, 08:23 AM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
Would half an inch taller so I could hold it comfortably without the grip count as "screwing with" the design"? I'm tired of of choosing between getting cramps in my hand or my wrist/forearm.
Different strokes for different folks. The K5 is perfect for my hand. But the D600 which is only slightly bigger in the grip kept giving me cramps and forced me into grip use. So a Lil bigger would upset me but make you happy.

09-17-2013, 08:42 AM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
Different strokes for different folks. The K5 is perfect for my hand. But the D600 which is only slightly bigger in the grip kept giving me cramps and forced me into grip use. So a Lil bigger would upset me but make you happy.
For me nothing comes close to the feeling of K10/K20 with DA 40

D600 is ergonomically a great pair with decent sized zoom lens like Tamron 28-75 or 70-300. I agree that smaller lenses dont seem very ergonomic on it. The weight distribution feels all wrong. maybe the way it's built is just necessary for an FF pentaprism and all that electronic gizmos? I know that ME super is half the size of DSLRS these days so it cant be just the prism. Ergonomically I like the D7000 more than the d600, but it's not full frame.
09-17-2013, 10:42 AM   #612
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
This is why I'd much rather shoot with my Pentax than Nikon. The larger body size and weight of the Nikon doesn't bother me that much, but going out and about with a comprehensive kit is a different matter altogether. Nikon lenses are so bulky, I can scarcely get three in my camera bag, whereas, I can carry six or, at a pinch, eight of my Pentax lenses, including the 60-250mm and the 300mm f4.
Thanks for the graphic picture, that really shows the difference in size. I may be wrong, but it always seemed to me that the various lens optical stabilization systems were somehow responsible for the size increase. Remember how Sigma had a 50-150 lens that was very competitive to Pentax's 50-135 (which i love). But then Sigma decided to incorporate OSS into it and it suddenly jumped in size.

The Nikon owners I know always seem very proud if they have lens with VR in it, they'll hold it up for my inspection and say something like: "and it has VR too". As a Pentax owner, it never seemed like a big deal to me since all my lenses had SR :-)

But its got to be more than the lens stabilization system making the lens large - because my Sony Nex kit lens 18-55 has stabilization in it and is not that large - course its a slower lens and that helps with size.

Went to a wooden boat festival 2 weeks ago, and i'll never forget this one gal who was lugging around a large backpack of her Canikon camera equipment with a tripod attached in the middle of a hot day - why? I think sooner or later, a generation of young people will come along who don't particularly like large camera/lens combos anymore, and the tide will turn, and rather suddenly. For that reason, I think Pentax and/or Sony may benefit enormously when the tide turns (on size :-)) Just my opinion and what do i know.

Rather than buy a camera last fall, i bought a photo quality printer (Epson R3000) and have enjoyed it enormously. And the great thing about printers, they don't go obsolete with new models every year :-). I'm probably in the wrong forum for that so will close with that small tip.
09-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Thanks for the graphic picture, that really shows the difference in size. I may be wrong, but it always seemed to me that the various lens optical stabilization systems were somehow responsible for the size increase. Remember how Sigma had a 50-150 lens that was very competitive to Pentax's 50-135 (which i love). But then Sigma decided to incorporate OSS into it and it suddenly jumped in size.

The Nikon owners I know always seem very proud if they have lens with VR in it, they'll hold it up for my inspection and say something like: "and it has VR too". As a Pentax owner, it never seemed like a big deal to me since all my lenses had SR :-)

But its got to be more than the lens stabilization system making the lens large - because my Sony Nex kit lens 18-55 has stabilization in it and is not that large - course its a slower lens and that helps with size.

Went to a wooden boat festival 2 weeks ago, and i'll never forget this one gal who was lugging around a large backpack of her Canikon camera equipment with a tripod attached in the middle of a hot day - why? I think sooner or later, a generation of young people will come along who don't particularly like large camera/lens combos anymore, and the tide will turn, and rather suddenly. For that reason, I think Pentax and/or Sony may benefit enormously when the tide turns (on size :-)) Just my opinion and what do i know.

Rather than buy a camera last fall, i bought a photo quality printer (Epson R3000) and have enjoyed it enormously. And the great thing about printers, they don't go obsolete with new models every year :-). I'm probably in the wrong forum for that so will close with that small tip.
Built-n motors are also a big size culprit I think. This is not, of course applicable in 50-150 case as I beleive the orginal 50-150 was already an HSS lens.
But it partly explains why modern lenses tends to be bigger. And pentax old screwdriven AF tech is a size advantage. No wonder Pentax didn't put motors in their DA Limited.
09-17-2013, 11:29 AM   #614
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Built-n motors are also a big size culprit I think. This is not, of course applicable in 50-150 case as I beleive the orginal 50-150 was already an HSS lens.
But it partly explains why modern lenses tends to be bigger. And pentax old screwdriven AF tech is a size advantage. No wonder Pentax didn't put motors in their DA Limited.
Perhaps when talking about longetivity, yes. As an anecdote though, I find that my Nikon lenses with AF-S (SDM) have higher keeper rate than the ones that are screw drive only, and I've heard similar reports on the net. Nikon's early attempts at sdm are rather similar to pentax (slow focus speed, not sure about it breaking), but have since caught up to their screw drive. I think both tech has its place, and thankfully all our limiteds have the screw drive to keep the size down.
09-17-2013, 11:39 AM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I doubt those people you saw went to Yellowstone just so they could take pictures of their kids. Do you think maybe they used FF DSLRs to take those pictures because it happened to be what they were carrying? I know if I'm on a vacation using my DSLR, I don't put it away and pull out my iPhone to snap a picture of my wife or whomever.
Maybe. No idea really, I didn't stop to talk to them. But the gear I noticed was shiny new and the people carrying it did not seem all that familiar with it. My point was only that there are people who think nothing of dropping 2-3 grand on a camera because they can afford it and they assume it will get them better pictures. Maybe it will. I'm not going to debate the photographer versus gear thing. These were people who were going on a 'trip of a lifetime' and wanted to make sure they had the best pictures they could get. I suspect taking a photography class would have improved the pictures more than a FF camera, but that's just my opinion.

The guy with the K-7 was no more familiar with his gear than the folks toting brand new MkIII's so it isn't just a FF thing. People there were trying to get the best images they could and many (most) seemed not all that familiar with any camera. But they were determined to record what the saw anyway.

What I saw was not a scientific study but I was surprised at the number of FF cameras I saw in the hands of people who did not have the other gear usually associated with 'photographers' they were just out with their families and the 5D MkIII was the 'family' camera. That is a high end market but I think a viable one for a company with the right message (small, ergonomic, light, WR, small lenses) In other words a light, easy to carry FF camera with good marketing has potential. And I cannot think of anyone better than Pentax to pull that off. If they get their act together.
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