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09-17-2013, 12:34 PM   #631
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Stabilisation will be a bit problematic with full frame but Sony managed it with their a99. You probably need to correct vignetting (but with the dr of modern chips that should not be a problem). The image processor won't be bigger since chips have been getting smaller and more powerful since 2010 (Prime II) and it will not be more than a 24mp sensor. The main reason why dslr's are bigger than slr's is the presence of a lcd in the back and the need for a bigger print plate. But mainly those have been design choices about how to make a digital slr that's still a slr. You could probably make a better design. e.g. put de sensor with stabilisation inside the print plate instead of on top of it.

09-17-2013, 12:46 PM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Maybe. No idea really, I didn't stop to talk to them. But the gear I noticed was shiny new and the people carrying it did not seem all that familiar with it. My point was only that there are people who think nothing of dropping 2-3 grand on a camera because they can afford it and they assume it will get them better pictures. Maybe it will. I'm not going to debate the photographer versus gear thing. These were people who were going on a 'trip of a lifetime' and wanted to make sure they had the best pictures they could get. I suspect taking a photography class would have improved the pictures more than a FF camera, but that's just my opinion.

The guy with the K-7 was no more familiar with his gear than the folks toting brand new MkIII's so it isn't just a FF thing. People there were trying to get the best images they could and many (most) seemed not all that familiar with any camera. But they were determined to record what the saw anyway.

What I saw was not a scientific study but I was surprised at the number of FF cameras I saw in the hands of people who did not have the other gear usually associated with 'photographers' they were just out with their families and the 5D MkIII was the 'family' camera. That is a high end market but I think a viable one for a company with the right message (small, ergonomic, light, WR, small lenses) In other words a light, easy to carry FF camera with good marketing has potential. And I cannot think of anyone better than Pentax to pull that off. If they get their act together.
Thanks for sharing. I still feel it needs to be placed in proper context as the FF segment of the DSLR market is still rather small by all accounts. No doubt there are some non-enthusiats who spend a lot on new camera equipment but are they buying Mark III's and D600/800's because they want a truly superior camera or are they buying them because they want the best Canon and Nikon offer without thinking about it too much (short of a D4 or something like that)? If it's the latter, Pentax is going to have a tough time cracking that nut, IMHO.
09-17-2013, 12:58 PM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
I fully agree.
I always have the grip on my K5 just because it lacks height.
The best sized of all cameras I ever used was the Olympus E3 (which, by the way, also had the best viewfinder)
I'm a large, tall dude (6'4") but I still really enjoy the K-5 form factor. I don't want to see it go away in favor of larger bodies.

That having been said, I could get behind the idea of a "Mini Grip" that adds a little height - and maybe an extra battery, but no controls - for the whiners valued customers ( ) who want it.
09-17-2013, 01:23 PM   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Compare a full frame DSLR with a film SLR with motor drive and 500 shot bulk film back since a FF DSLR has motor drive and SDXC slot.
Not to mention the ENIAC computer attached to it.



09-17-2013, 01:56 PM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I'm a large, tall dude (6'4") but I still really enjoy the K-5 form factor. I don't want to see it go away in favor of larger bodies.

That having been said, I could get behind the idea of a "Mini Grip" that adds a little height - and maybe an extra battery, but no controls - for the whiners valued customers ( ) who want it.
Do I understand you well?
People who think that the form factor of the K5 is not perfect (or people with big hands) are whiners?
09-17-2013, 02:03 PM   #636
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Coming back to the title of this thread: are there or aren't there (prosumer) cameras coming this year? Does somebody know more?
Olympus launched the great EM-1, Sony comes with FF Nex, Nikon is rumored to come with the D610, Canon will launch a high spec M-series, and Pentax ..................?
I think somebody at Ricoh abuses the expression "no news is good news".
09-17-2013, 02:03 PM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
Do I understand you well?
People who think that the form factor of the K5 is not perfect (or people with big hands) are whiners?
I think you may have missed the winking smily-face.

There is no perfect size for everyone. It's possible to make a small camera larger. But making a large camera smaller is usually problematic.
09-17-2013, 02:36 PM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I There is no perfect size for everyone. It's possible to make a small camera larger. But making a large camera smaller is usually problematic.
I understand why should be lighter but I never understood why they should be smaller.

09-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
Coming back to the title of this thread: are there or aren't there (prosumer) cameras coming this year? Does somebody know more?
Olympus launched the great EM-1, Sony comes with FF Nex, Nikon is rumored to come with the D610, Canon will launch a high spec M-series, and Pentax ..................?
I think somebody at Ricoh abuses the expression "no news is good news".
Ricoh will announce a season of new, really exciting and big plans.
09-17-2013, 03:18 PM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Stabilisation will be a bit problematic with full frame but Sony managed it with their a99. You probably need to correct vignetting (but with the dr of modern chips that should not be a problem). The image processor won't be bigger since chips have been getting smaller and more powerful since 2010 (Prime II) and it will not be more than a 24mp sensor. The main reason why dslr's are bigger than slr's is the presence of a lcd in the back and the need for a bigger print plate. But mainly those have been design choices about how to make a digital slr that's still a slr. You could probably make a better design. e.g. put de sensor with stabilisation inside the print plate instead of on top of it.
Until the Canon SL1 with no IBIS came out, the smallest APS-C camera was the Pentax K-x with SR:

Compare camera dimensions side by side

The K-x also uses space-hogging AA batteries. Pentax also has a better placed mount release button for trimming size down. The Canon is still deeper despite having a shorter register distance. Both use a pentamirror design which may explain the reasons why the K-x-K-30 gained so much in size.
09-17-2013, 03:21 PM   #641
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Wow and I thought the *istDS2 was small!
09-17-2013, 04:13 PM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by k david Quote
"i don't see why a ff should be much larger than a aps-c larger mirror house and larger pentaprism, but pentax was able to make perfectly compact film slr's so why not for digital? The reason why full frames are bigger is mainly because they are pro dslrs which have always been bigger than consumer models for durability and ergonomic reasons. A d7000 is not much smaller than a d600."

certainly in time they will be smaller, but ff sensors with in-camera stabilization require larger mounts. Also, the hardware to process the data takes more space. More material generates more heat and that required larger and better heat removal systems. All that requires a a larger frame which inandof itself needs to be slightly heftier to carry all the added stuff.
battery.:d
09-17-2013, 10:15 PM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Ricoh will announce a season of new, really exciting and big plans.
that's 2 months ago .... and still nothing.
that's Rumours ... NOT releases
09-17-2013, 10:19 PM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
that's 2 months ago .... and still nothing.
that's Rumours ... NOT releases
Apparently, Ricoh Theta is ready and can be ordered.
09-17-2013, 11:29 PM   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Apparently, Ricoh Theta is ready and can be ordered.
You must be a Ricoh representative.
Last year on fotokina when people asked for FF they just smiled.
I read a few days ago on this forum about someone who asked Pentax about the next 645 .... and they smiled.
smiling apparently means: we have nothing.
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