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09-21-2013, 01:38 AM   #721
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
I`ll rather see a 400mm F5.6 WR prime with good wide open performance, something like the canon 400mm F5.6 L. Sort of a little brother to the DA560.
Good performance, not too heavy and reasonably affordable. The canon does €1400,-, I even wouldn`t mind paying more if Pentax would offer such a lens.
I bought my DA* 300mm f/4 with the vague intention of adding the roadmap's 1.4x Teleconverter (ha!) to it to make it a 420mm f/5.6. I think such a lens or combination of lens plus teleconverter would be attractive.

09-21-2013, 01:59 AM   #722
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
You are right here - they are lacking in making a real bid for wedding, event, photojournalist, sports and wildlife pro photographers. You are spot on about where they are lacking (give me better AF - the IIs is better than the K5, but I am hungry for more!) - I also think they need to address fps for sports and wildlife (and that wouldn't hurt my weddings either) and the trends in the wedding industry for good low light performance with FF. But in my opinion it is going to take more than camera specs to make a real bid for those industries. The new flashes are a start, but it will take lenses too, such as the 60-250 would need to be updated to FF (and it wouldn't hurt to get it to 2.8). Given that so much needs to be done to really release a pro level FF dslr, it makes me wonder if they aren't just content to stay with prosumers....
Well i sated this already before since the EC Waterfly was in februari 2012:

So I went two weeks to the European Championship Waterfly in Eindhoven. Taken pictures 14 days, every day following 2 to 4 games. A hard learning school and I did enjoy it.

I used K-5, K-5 Silver, FA*85mm, DA40mm, DA21mm, DA15mm, DA*300mm and Sigma 70-200mm (OS version). I have three new SanDisk PRO cards 45mb/s and one older 32 GB classe 10 and 16 GB classe 6 card. Took a laptop to use in the mediacentre. Used a monopod and a Metz flash.

I took thousends of pictures during that time. There are some real fantastic pictures with it. Learnd a lot from some of the pro-shooters there (1D Mark IV, 5D Mark II, 7D, D300s, D3, D3s and loads of pro-lenses up to 400mm/f2.8). There where a few with transmitters to send their images to their laptops standing next to the pool. I spend time waiting for my camera to be ready with processing and storing files while next to me someone is standing reviewing the same pictures and selecting and deleting. Time I could not spend on my pictures. I'm talking about 8 hours or so during those two weeks. The K-5 is a slow camera in that way.

So what do I want?

•I want better image quality then K-5 offers at hi iso-settings to meet magazine printing quality. So I guess I want APS-H or Full Frame. For newspaper it is fine as K-5 is, but the future is demanding more.
•I want faster processing in the camera and up to UHS-I speed of writing to cards to stop loosing so much time on waiting for my camera to be ready.
•I want a smarter and faster AF system. I want lenses that are faster in focussing to work with that new AF-system.
•I want a second cardslot in my camera. To make RAW and jpg.
•I want to have a sort of transmitting of images to my laptop. I want to have an option to mark good pictures so I can find them back faster then now.
•I want a DA*400mm/f4 or a DA*135-270mm/f2.8 with a DA*1.4x TC.
•I would like to have the option to change to 12-bit RAW. Especially with hi iso (iso 1600 and up) to have smaller files that process faster.
•I would like an integrated grip. The K-5 body is perfect otherwise. So just attache the vertical grip to it and make it one fast camera full of options.
•A new and better flashsystem would be great.
•In sportsphotography a shutter garanteed to use for 100k times isn't so great. So making a new one better to use for at least 200.000 actuations would be great.

From an other ways satisfight user.


It still apply's for the next generation.
09-21-2013, 02:29 AM   #723
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Ron, you want too much

QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I bought my DA* 300mm f/4 with the vague intention of adding the roadmap's 1.4x Teleconverter (ha!) to it to make it a 420mm f/5.6. I think such a lens or combination of lens plus teleconverter would be attractive.
Hmm, I`m not so sure about the T/C. They allways have an impact on IQ. My sigma 100-300 F4 is a great piece of glass but if I hook it up with the sigma 1.4 APO EX DG converter it`s not so good anymore. On close range the IQ is still very acceptable but on longer ranges cropping is not an option anymore. Also CA rears it ugly tail when the TC is used. I`m going to South Africa this year and a lot of people say "leave the 150-500, only take the 100-300 F4 with TC" but I`m afraid to do so.

But yes, I agree that a prime like that would be very attractive for wildlifers and birders.
09-21-2013, 03:52 AM   #724
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

So what do I want?

•I want better image quality then K-5 offers at hi iso-settings to meet magazine printing quality. So I guess I want APS-H or Full Frame. For newspaper it is fine as K-5 is, but the future is demanding more.
•I want faster processing in the camera and up to UHS-I speed of writing to cards to stop loosing so much time on waiting for my camera to be ready.
•I want a smarter and faster AF system. I want lenses that are faster in focussing to work with that new AF-system.

•I want a second cardslot in my camera. To make RAW and jpg.
•I want to have a sort of transmitting of images to my laptop. I want to have an option to mark good pictures so I can find them back faster then now.
•I want a DA*400mm/f4 or a DA*135-270mm/f2.8 with a DA*1.4x TC.
•I would like to have the option to change to 12-bit RAW. Especially with hi iso (iso 1600 and up) to have smaller files that process faster.
•I would like an integrated grip. The K-5 body is perfect otherwise. So just attache the vertical grip to it and make it one fast camera full of options.
•A new and better flashsystem would be great.
•In sportsphotography a shutter garanteed to use for 100k times isn't so great. So making a new one better to use for at least 200.000 actuations would be great.

.
I agree with the ones in green. The last one in my case is for time lapse videos, I don't care for sports shooting.

The blue ones are "why not but not that high on my list"

The rest are not important for my shooting.

I do agree that the K5 is way too slow in processing images. If you take about 5 images in quick succession and have lens corrections on, it takes seemingly forever before the camera is ready to continue.

09-21-2013, 04:08 AM   #725
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I'd go with:
- better image quality (nothing wrong with the K-5IIs, but an improvement in this area is always good)
- faster processing (very likely)
- faster, smarter AF with lenses to match
I won't use it, but it won't hurt either:
- second card slot
- wireless upload
- 12-bit RAW
- 200.000 frames shutter
I'm definitely against:
- integrated grip (why make the camera unnecessarily large?)
09-21-2013, 04:57 AM   #726
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
See, here's the thing. Ricoh isn't thinking so much about Christmas 2013. They're thinking more about Christmas 2020. If I have to choose whether Ricoh or Olympus will be making cameras in 2020 I'd pick Ricoh in heartbeat.

I really don't understand the fetish with doom of Pentax talk unless it is that Pentax has been sort of going bankrupt since the 70's and sort of went out of business when Hoya bought them - so now all people can think is they're going out of business. We keep making the same points about this and that being broken or wrong or not done. And as Ricoh fixes things we say, "Well, sure, they're actually marketing, but it isn't good marketing, or they don't have the right stuff to compete, or they're not in the stores so what good will it do, or it isn't FF . . . . . . "

So what will people complain about here when all those things are fixed and they have 15% of the market?
I used to hang around various Apple forums during their lean years: the perpetual angst seemed to be part of the appeal for some people. So this doom and gloom talk about Pentax is not unfamiliar.
09-21-2013, 05:16 AM   #727
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QuoteOriginally posted by penguinsoda Quote
Oh bother.... Well.... guess I'll just have to keep laying on the ground for low level shots and making a fool of myself trying to get back up again... or keep taking faith pictures... aim the camera where I think I want since I can't see through the viewfinder/screen and have faith that I'll get something I can at least salvage in post... at least for a while... Since I don't care about FF at my level of expertise.
Seriously, check out the K-01 -- the screen may not articulate, but it is visible from surprisingly sharp angles. Or spend a few more dollars on the K-30, which functions much like the K-01 in liveview mode, as well as being a very capable SLR.

Last edited by asw66; 09-21-2013 at 05:17 AM. Reason: typo
09-21-2013, 05:27 AM   #728
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
An interesting feature of that approach is that amateurs probably don't need the service back-up that professionals need.
Given that Pentax knew it couldn't provide the professional support necessary for real Sports/Action (Olympics? Super Bowl? World Cup?) - massive stocks of rental lenses, loaner bodies and quick-turn service, they must have decidied long ago, "Why bother with the technology?"

09-21-2013, 05:39 AM   #729
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
This is why I'd much rather shoot with my Pentax than Nikon. The larger body size and weight of the Nikon doesn't bother me that much, but going out and about with a comprehensive kit is a different matter altogether. Nikon lenses are so bulky, I can scarcely get three in my camera bag, whereas, I can carry six or, at a pinch, eight of my Pentax lenses, including the 60-250mm and the 300mm f4.
A buddy at my work who has invested huge amounts in Nikon gear is now running into back problems, which his heavy camera gear is aggravating. He's actively considering moving to Olympus.
09-21-2013, 06:03 AM   #730
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
A buddy at my work who has invested huge amounts in Nikon gear is now running into back problems, which his heavy camera gear is aggravating. He's actively considering moving to Olympus.
Nikon kit can be very light too, but often it takes a bit of a less enthusiastic LBA mindset to realise it. And because of lack of experience, people switch to something small as "an antidote". Not realising that problems are the size of their bags — not what's in those bags — so they carry their problems anywhere they go.
09-21-2013, 07:16 AM   #731
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nikon kit can be very light too
Agreed, but not if you want top class zooms. I have the 14-24, which is heavy and huge, but there's nothing else to match it, not even primes, in that focal range. All the lenses Nikon recommend for use with the D800 are big and heavy. I sold my 80-200mm f2.8 because of its weight, and got a 70-300mm instead. It's not as sharp, but my back is grateful.
09-21-2013, 09:17 AM   #732
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nikon kit can be very light too, but often it takes a bit of a less enthusiastic LBA mindset to realise it. And because of lack of experience, people switch to something small as "an antidote"
It probably takes more than "a bit less enthusiastic LBA mindset" to realize the smaller Nikon kit. Moreover, if you applied the same mindset to a compact system, you'd still have a lighter, smaller kit. Nor do I think it's "lack of experience" that causes people to switch to smaller systems as "an antidote." First of all, if you're gear is too heavy and cumbersome, a smaller system is an antidote! Indeed, it's a lack of experience that's preventing photographers from exploring smaller options. I listen to a number of photography podcasts, and read a number of photoblogs, and I'm acquainted with many of the best photographers locally, and I'm noticing the following trend: a photographer gets a compact system for "fun" or travel; he next discovers that the difference in IQ between the compact system and the big FF system is irrelevant for 95% of what he does, and that the compact system is not only easier to carry, but less cumbersome to use. Soon the photographer finds himself using the compact system more than big FF system. I'm seeing the potential for a strong trend toward smaller gear. The main obstacle to this trend is a strong prejudice held by many photo enthusiasts (but not by most pros and advanced amateurs) against smaller sensors.

One of the problems with smaller compact mirrorless systems is that they don't handle as well as a DSLR. Small buttons, positioned too close together; ergonomically, they don't exactly melt in your hand (like the K-5); and they sport EVFs, instead of the OVF. For photographers who want better handling, better ergonomics, and an OVF, a compact mirrorless system (and by system I mean both camera and lenses), a compact APS-C DSLR system could be just the thing. I see these new HD DA limited lenses as not merely constituting evidence of Ricoh's commitment to the K-Mount, but also evidence of their commitment to a compact DSLR system. All that's needed is some compact limited zooms to supplement the limited primes to fill out the system. I have the F 35-70 and the FA 20-35. Both lenses are not much larger than an average sized prime lens. While the 35-70 is, optically, only a notch or two above kit glass, the FA 20-35 is an excellent performer, capable of stunning results. It's possible to make compact zooms with superb IQ. Hopefully, this new limited zoom on the roadmap will illustrate this.
09-21-2013, 11:35 AM   #733
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Isn't that the whole point, though? Make a camera that professionals will use, then sell 20x as many to amateurs.
I suspect many amateurs are more exacting than the pros.
09-21-2013, 11:36 AM   #734
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QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
A buddy at my work who has invested huge amounts in Nikon gear is now running into back problems, which his heavy camera gear is aggravating. He's actively considering moving to Olympus.
Compare camera dimensions side by side
09-21-2013, 12:01 PM   #735
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well i sated this already before since the EC Waterfly was in februari 2012:

So I went two weeks to the European Championship Waterfly in Eindhoven. Taken pictures 14 days, every day following 2 to 4 games. A hard learning school and I did enjoy it.

I used K-5, K-5 Silver, FA*85mm, DA40mm, DA21mm, DA15mm, DA*300mm and Sigma 70-200mm (OS version). I have three new SanDisk PRO cards 45mb/s and one older 32 GB classe 10 and 16 GB classe 6 card. Took a laptop to use in the mediacentre. Used a monopod and a Metz flash.

I took thousends of pictures during that time. There are some real fantastic pictures with it. Learnd a lot from some of the pro-shooters there (1D Mark IV, 5D Mark II, 7D, D300s, D3, D3s and loads of pro-lenses up to 400mm/f2.8). There where a few with transmitters to send their images to their laptops standing next to the pool. I spend time waiting for my camera to be ready with processing and storing files while next to me someone is standing reviewing the same pictures and selecting and deleting. Time I could not spend on my pictures. I'm talking about 8 hours or so during those two weeks. The K-5 is a slow camera in that way.

So what do I want?

•I want better image quality then K-5 offers at hi iso-settings to meet magazine printing quality. So I guess I want APS-H or Full Frame. For newspaper it is fine as K-5 is, but the future is demanding more.
•I want faster processing in the camera and up to UHS-I speed of writing to cards to stop loosing so much time on waiting for my camera to be ready.
•I want a smarter and faster AF system. I want lenses that are faster in focussing to work with that new AF-system.
•I want a second cardslot in my camera. To make RAW and jpg.
•I want to have a sort of transmitting of images to my laptop. I want to have an option to mark good pictures so I can find them back faster then now.
•I want a DA*400mm/f4 or a DA*135-270mm/f2.8 with a DA*1.4x TC.
•I would like to have the option to change to 12-bit RAW. Especially with hi iso (iso 1600 and up) to have smaller files that process faster.
•I would like an integrated grip. The K-5 body is perfect otherwise. So just attache the vertical grip to it and make it one fast camera full of options.
•A new and better flashsystem would be great.
•In sportsphotography a shutter garanteed to use for 100k times isn't so great. So making a new one better to use for at least 200.000 actuations would be great.

From an other ways satisfight user.


It still apply's for the next generation.

Absolutely. Oddly enough I can see Ricoh actually accomplishing much of this over the next couple of years. All of those things would be very welcome to me as well, and I would spend money to buy them.

I too a very satisfied K-5 owner.
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