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09-26-2013, 12:03 PM   #796
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Ricoh isn't quite ready to support full=pro yet, so why pretend and release a full-pro camera body?

Once they have lenses, at least some distribution, pro support services and repair and the kind of image marketing that benefits from professional association maybe then you'll see a full-pro spec body, including the integrated grip. It's real, but not soon.

09-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #797
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And how does one acquire 'professional association' if you don't have equipment that professionals would consider using (whether the system is labelled 'pro' or not)?

Chicken or Egg?

From my own perspective, I don't mind if the system is labelled 'pro' now or not, or if there is an extensive support and repair network or not. But I do want to see them make some reasonable advances in obviously deficient areas (AF, flash-synch, back-up card).

I think they are doing themselves a dis-service if they don't at least make the system worth serious consideration...now.
09-26-2013, 02:36 PM   #798
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
And how does one acquire 'professional association' if you don't have equipment that professionals would consider using (whether the system is labelled 'pro' or not)?

Chicken or Egg?

From my own perspective, I don't mind if the system is labelled 'pro' now or not, or if there is an extensive support and repair network or not. But I do want to see them make some reasonable advances in obviously deficient areas (AF, flash-synch, back-up card).

I think they are doing themselves a dis-service if they don't at least make the system worth serious consideration...now.
I think that the time is also there for doing this. The technologie in sensors for IQ is on a hold to my feelings and thus a new pro-body with hi-specs can run for a few years in production. When the new AF-module is ready the rest is just electronics to make it fast and snappy. Put in that fast computer.

K-1 with integrated grip (K-5 style) is still dwarfish in size compared to 1Dx or D4.
09-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
And how does one acquire 'professional association' if you don't have equipment that professionals would consider using (whether the system is labelled 'pro' or not)?
That's exactly my point.

Ricoh is doing first things first. We won't see a professional body until they have all the rest of the professional requirements in place and ready to deliver.

09-26-2013, 03:08 PM - 1 Like   #800
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh isn't quite ready to support full=pro yet, so why pretend and release a full-pro camera body?

Once they have lenses, at least some distribution, pro support services and repair and the kind of image marketing that benefits from professional association maybe then you'll see a full-pro spec body, including the integrated grip. It's real, but not soon.
I think it is more important to come with a pro body first,
Since SIGMA offer wonderful 35/50/85 mm lenses, TAMRON offer pretty good 28-75mm and 70-200 mm and of course there is 31/43/77 from Pentax, I believe that is enough for a start.
09-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #801
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
I think it is more important to come with a pro body first,
Since SIGMA offer wonderful 35/50/85 mm lenses, TAMRON offer pretty good 28-75mm and 70-200 mm and of course there is 31/43/77 from Pentax, I believe that is enough for a start.

I agree that there are enough FF lenses for consumers, but there aren't enough FF PENTAX lenses for Ricoh to sell with a new system.
09-26-2013, 03:21 PM   #802
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
I agree that there are enough FF lenses for consumers, but there aren't enough FF PENTAX lenses for Ricoh to sell with a new system.
For the new glass from Pentax to be successful, they new to come with a better price/quality ratio or performance than the competitors. Comparing the lens pricing policies from Pentax and Sigma, it is pretty obvious which one is more wallet-friendly Maybe Pentax can blow Sigma away with performance then (having the new Sigma 35mm in mind)? I hope so.
09-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #803
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
I think it is more important to come with a pro body first,
Since SIGMA offer wonderful 35/50/85 mm lenses, TAMRON offer pretty good 28-75mm and 70-200 mm and of course there is 31/43/77 from Pentax, I believe that is enough for a start.
Ricoh doesn't make any money on Sigma and Tamron lenses. For that matter they don't really make much money on Pentax bodies.

09-26-2013, 04:21 PM   #804
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh doesn't make any money on Sigma and Tamron lenses. For that matter they don't really make much money on Pentax bodies.
Correct, but lens development require a lot of time (all these threads on the forum show that people are hungry for new products like crazy) and a pro body would buy a lot of time (as well as saving some users from changing system) and show the commitment to the pro gear development.
09-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #805
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Oh please, please let's not start talking about something that just isn't going to be.
09-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #806
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The pro market as I know it will not jump into a body+primes system. Pentax made 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 are the bare minimum needed if Pentax/Ricoh want to be taken seriously in this space. Naturally these would be fully weather-sealed, HD-coated, FA* class lenses with improved SDM.
I'd say a very small minority of the Canikon professional wedding photographers would even consider running with a bag of FA Limiteds - as nice as they are. Relying on third-party manufacturers to fill in the gaps is also unacceptable. Bringing out a FF Pro body without these two lenses would be a waste, nobody would pay attention to the camera and it would flop commercially.

Ricoh can bring out a FF body without those two pieces of glass and many of us on this forum wouldn't care, we would sing it's praises all day. However, they would be wise to reconsider if they have any designs on courting the larger professional market with it.
09-27-2013, 01:32 AM   #807
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mock Quote
The pro market as I know it will not jump into a body+primes system. Pentax made 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 are the bare minimum needed if Pentax/Ricoh want to be taken seriously in this space. Naturally these would be fully weather-sealed, HD-coated, FA* class lenses with improved SDM.
I'd say a very small minority of the Canikon professional wedding photographers would even consider running with a bag of FA Limiteds - as nice as they are. Relying on third-party manufacturers to fill in the gaps is also unacceptable. Bringing out a FF Pro body without these two lenses would be a waste, nobody would pay attention to the camera and it would flop commercially.

Ricoh can bring out a FF body without those two pieces of glass and many of us on this forum wouldn't care, we would sing it's praises all day. However, they would be wise to reconsider if they have any designs on courting the larger professional market with it.
The pro-market is being served by other brands already for a long time, and with lots of products. I doubt they'll jump on FF Ricoh even if it was showered with lenses. It's the amateur enthusiast market that wants to get into affordable FF now.
09-27-2013, 04:00 AM   #808
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The pro-market is being served by other brands already for a long time, and with lots of products. I doubt they'll jump on FF Ricoh even if it was showered with lenses. It's the amateur enthusiast market that wants to get into affordable FF now.
medium format market was served by other brands for decades when Phase One came along, and look now.
some brands disappeared, others merged with Phase One.
So why wouldn't Ricoh br capable to do it?
09-27-2013, 04:09 AM   #809
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
medium format market was served by other brands for decades when Phase One came along, and look now.
some brands disappeared, others merged with Phase One.
So why wouldn't Ricoh br capable to do it?
True... But why take the hard way and try to compete against other bigger players in a small saturated piece of the market, (pro-FF) while there's a big fat hole in the market that nobody serves at all: consumer-grade FF? I was convinced Sony was going to beat Pentax to it with their future FF mirrorless offering, but its rumored price suggests that that hole in the market will nog be plugged any time soon.
09-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #810
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
.. I was convinced Sony was going to beat Pentax to it with their future FF mirrorless offering, but its rumored price suggests that that hole in the market will nog be plugged any time soon.
Because no sane company is willing to drill a new hole in its ship to fit in it a brand new 100 million $ plug — just to 'fix' that new hole, now twice as wide as the old hole (one barely plugged and barely holding the water).

And that is why even Sony, who can make cameras cheaper than both Nikon and Pentax, has first tested the FF mirrorless market through a minimum of risk, and through a non-commiting, compact FF camera. When they issue an FF NEX, you can surely bet, it will be a low risk approach again: small batches of a limited edition product, sold at a premium price.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-27-2013 at 05:42 AM.
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