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09-26-2013, 04:21 PM   #796
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh doesn't make any money on Sigma and Tamron lenses. For that matter they don't really make much money on Pentax bodies.
Correct, but lens development require a lot of time (all these threads on the forum show that people are hungry for new products like crazy) and a pro body would buy a lot of time (as well as saving some users from changing system) and show the commitment to the pro gear development.

09-26-2013, 04:32 PM   #797
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Oh please, please let's not start talking about something that just isn't going to be.
09-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #798
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The pro market as I know it will not jump into a body+primes system. Pentax made 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 are the bare minimum needed if Pentax/Ricoh want to be taken seriously in this space. Naturally these would be fully weather-sealed, HD-coated, FA* class lenses with improved SDM.
I'd say a very small minority of the Canikon professional wedding photographers would even consider running with a bag of FA Limiteds - as nice as they are. Relying on third-party manufacturers to fill in the gaps is also unacceptable. Bringing out a FF Pro body without these two lenses would be a waste, nobody would pay attention to the camera and it would flop commercially.

Ricoh can bring out a FF body without those two pieces of glass and many of us on this forum wouldn't care, we would sing it's praises all day. However, they would be wise to reconsider if they have any designs on courting the larger professional market with it.
09-27-2013, 01:32 AM   #799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mock Quote
The pro market as I know it will not jump into a body+primes system. Pentax made 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 are the bare minimum needed if Pentax/Ricoh want to be taken seriously in this space. Naturally these would be fully weather-sealed, HD-coated, FA* class lenses with improved SDM.
I'd say a very small minority of the Canikon professional wedding photographers would even consider running with a bag of FA Limiteds - as nice as they are. Relying on third-party manufacturers to fill in the gaps is also unacceptable. Bringing out a FF Pro body without these two lenses would be a waste, nobody would pay attention to the camera and it would flop commercially.

Ricoh can bring out a FF body without those two pieces of glass and many of us on this forum wouldn't care, we would sing it's praises all day. However, they would be wise to reconsider if they have any designs on courting the larger professional market with it.
The pro-market is being served by other brands already for a long time, and with lots of products. I doubt they'll jump on FF Ricoh even if it was showered with lenses. It's the amateur enthusiast market that wants to get into affordable FF now.

09-27-2013, 04:00 AM   #800
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The pro-market is being served by other brands already for a long time, and with lots of products. I doubt they'll jump on FF Ricoh even if it was showered with lenses. It's the amateur enthusiast market that wants to get into affordable FF now.
medium format market was served by other brands for decades when Phase One came along, and look now.
some brands disappeared, others merged with Phase One.
So why wouldn't Ricoh br capable to do it?
09-27-2013, 04:09 AM   #801
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QuoteOriginally posted by wigelII Quote
medium format market was served by other brands for decades when Phase One came along, and look now.
some brands disappeared, others merged with Phase One.
So why wouldn't Ricoh br capable to do it?
True... But why take the hard way and try to compete against other bigger players in a small saturated piece of the market, (pro-FF) while there's a big fat hole in the market that nobody serves at all: consumer-grade FF? I was convinced Sony was going to beat Pentax to it with their future FF mirrorless offering, but its rumored price suggests that that hole in the market will nog be plugged any time soon.
09-27-2013, 05:18 AM   #802
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
.. I was convinced Sony was going to beat Pentax to it with their future FF mirrorless offering, but its rumored price suggests that that hole in the market will nog be plugged any time soon.
Because no sane company is willing to drill a new hole in its ship to fit in it a brand new 100 million $ plug — just to 'fix' that new hole, now twice as wide as the old hole (one barely plugged and barely holding the water).

And that is why even Sony, who can make cameras cheaper than both Nikon and Pentax, has first tested the FF mirrorless market through a minimum of risk, and through a non-commiting, compact FF camera. When they issue an FF NEX, you can surely bet, it will be a low risk approach again: small batches of a limited edition product, sold at a premium price.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-27-2013 at 05:42 AM.
09-27-2013, 01:45 PM   #803
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That's exactly my point.

Ricoh is doing first things first. We won't see a professional body until they have all the rest of the professional requirements in place and ready to deliver.
And my point is what should come first, the support or the equipment? (hence the 'chicken and egg' comment).

Are you suggesting they hold off on releasing equipment capable of fulfilling professional photographers needs until they have a support network and all the other bits and bobs in place? That's one approach to it, granted.

What I am suggesting is that they should at least be working on, and releasing, equipment now that pros would consider using, even if it's not yet labelled 'pro'. I'm not, necessarily, talking about integrated grips and/or full-frame yet either, just a move to address some obvious deficiencies.

With the current speculation about a new camera (K-3 or whatever it is), I think they may be doing just what I've suggested. Given that they've aligned their 'enthusiast' cameras with the number 5, if the new body is a '3' there must be something to differentiate it as higher than 'enthusiast'. I will be particularly interested in what that might be (I'm really hoping on a second card-slot for back-up).

09-27-2013, 02:46 PM   #804
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
And my point is what should come first, the support or the equipment? (hence the 'chicken and egg' comment).

Are you suggesting they hold off on releasing equipment capable of fulfilling professional photographers needs until they have a support network and all the other bits and bobs in place? That's one approach to it, granted.

What I am suggesting is that they should at least be working on, and releasing, equipment now that pros would consider using, even if it's not yet labelled 'pro'. I'm not, necessarily, talking about integrated grips and/or full-frame yet either, just a move to address some obvious deficiencies.

With the current speculation about a new camera (K-3 or whatever it is), I think they may be doing just what I've suggested. Given that they've aligned their 'enthusiast' cameras with the number 5, if the new body is a '3' there must be something to differentiate it as higher than 'enthusiast'. I will be particularly interested in what that might be (I'm really hoping on a second card-slot for back-up).
I've seen a statement somewhere in these forums that most professional-grade cameras are bought by non-professionals. (And I know amateurs with cameras such as Canon 1D X).

If so, there is no need to wait for a full support network before launching such equipment. And it must surely make such a support network more credible if the equipment is already there when the support network is launched.
09-27-2013, 03:29 PM - 1 Like   #805
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I've seen a statement somewhere in these forums that most professional-grade cameras are bought by non-professionals. (And I know amateurs with cameras such as Canon 1D X).
If so, there is no need to wait for a full support network before launching such equipment. And it must surely make such a support network more credible if the equipment is already there when the support network is launched.
What's this? Facts and logic in this thread? Stop that immediately!
09-30-2013, 04:21 AM - 1 Like   #806
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Folks , Pentax already has a Pro Service to support the 645D ( with the caveat that the photographer makes 50% of his annual income from Photography). This service may/might be expanded to handle FF DSLR's . Also lack of FF Glass can be mitigated by TAMRON/SIGMA creating glass for Pentax under Contract ( even a rebranding agreement with a 70/30 or 60/40 profit split may be profitable to all concerned). Its still to early to say what may be coming if anything, so lets be patient and hope. It serves no purpose to speculate in the absence of hard facts and wishing won't make it so. As many of us are long standing Pentaxians , I say we be patient and see what comes down the pike in the next year.
10-01-2013, 08:32 AM   #807
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QuoteOriginally posted by geojazz Quote
Folks... It serves no purpose to speculate in the absence of hard facts and wishing won't make it so. As many of us are long standing Pentaxians, I say we be patient and see what comes down the pike in the next year.
A voice of reason. Nice.
10-01-2013, 10:42 AM   #808
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
True... But why take the hard way and try to compete against other bigger players in a small saturated piece of the market, (pro-FF) while there's a big fat hole in the market that nobody serves at all: consumer-grade FF? I was convinced Sony was going to beat Pentax to it with their future FF mirrorless offering, but its rumored price suggests that that hole in the market will nog be plugged any time soon.

It is baffling that people connect FF with pro at all. Here where I live I hardly see a pro using FF cameras. I have in fact never seen the archetypical pro, the photo journalist, with something other than an APS camera.
Besides, the concept of pro cameras has been completely muddled in the digital age. Most pros use "consumer" bodies and apart from the odd model from Nikon and Canon, like the D4 eg, with limited appeal for enthusiast, few bodies can be labeled pro.
10-01-2013, 02:20 PM   #809
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I know 2 photojournalist pros who work for the mainstream media and both use FF equipment (Canon) supplied by their news services. They share their cameras from a stable. Each shift gets the cameras.

They also buy their own for personal and contract work. I see most photojournalists in the scrum with FF now.
10-01-2013, 02:48 PM   #810
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So is it camera or cameras?? Looks like the K-3 is coming soon. Any others on their way for this year?
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