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10-02-2013, 09:45 PM   #826
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recently read somewhere that Sony was listed as a "medium format" exhibitor at an upcoming show... Perhaps they'll be making some wicked new sensors that Nikon and possibly Pentax will utilize in next-gen MFD bodies.

10-02-2013, 10:02 PM   #827
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QuoteOriginally posted by aglet Quote
recently read somewhere that Sony was listed as a "medium format" exhibitor at an upcoming show... Perhaps they'll be making some wicked new sensors that Nikon and possibly Pentax will utilize in next-gen MFD bodies.
If Canon goes MF and others can only rely on CCDs, they will fry very quickly IMO.

Canon has the resources to sell lower price at first to win the market. Also they'd produce modern MF sized-CMOS.
That would kill CCDs based cameras IMO. Not what I wish but... if as Aglet says, Sony ventures into bigger CMOS, as Sony is now feeling the heat of Toshiba, Aptina. Sony may want to go higher upmarket ?
10-02-2013, 11:54 PM   #828
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I'm not really sure how the MF market suddenly has so much potential, that everyone wants to get in
Samsung, Canon, Sony... with the existing players, it would be the most crowded camera market.
10-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #829
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm not really sure how the MF market suddenly has so much potential, that everyone wants to get in
Samsung, Canon, Sony... with the existing players, it would be the most crowded camera market.
Now, you don't see why. Just to make Pentax worst buy ever in this sector too, simple. MF is the new FF.
Suddenly newcomers with less new lenses for MF would be better and more viable alternative, just enough to piss some one off.

10-03-2013, 12:22 AM   #830
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm not really sure how the MF market suddenly has so much potential, that everyone wants to get in
Samsung, Canon, Sony... with the existing players, it would be the most crowded camera market.
Well the MF market itself may be defined by the high megapixel and high bit colour depth demands of professionals in the advertising and modelling industries (to name two obvious ones) but there is nothing inherent within a MF sized sensor that restricts it to these sectors other than cost and size (and maybe current technology).

Both cost and size of MF bodies could theoretically be brought down with investment - especially by a company with sensor design skills and facilities like Canon; which is also a company that could design their mount from scratch to be as compact as possible.

However, I don't see this happening as 35mm sensors are starting to edge into the low end MF market anyway and Canon would risk cannibalising its own sales. Pentax on the other hand, whilst not having a FF market to protect, and having an existing mount and lens catalogue, doesn't have the ability to drive forward MF sensor technology by itself.

The interesting thing in all of this is of course Samsung's prototype MF sensor of a couple of years ago.... Although there's been no word about that since.
10-03-2013, 12:23 AM   #831
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Caat, but Pentax already made the step with the 645D - much more affordable than any other DMF.
QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Now, you don't see why. Just to make Pentax worst buy ever in this sector too, simple. MF is the new FF.
Suddenly newcomers with less new lenses for MF would be better and more viable alternative, just enough to piss some one off.
You have a point. I suppose the next thing will be for everyone to make a Q equivalent?
10-03-2013, 12:41 AM   #832
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Or maybe the THREAT of Canon will cause the current players to wake up. I think this is an area Pentax has a large POTENTIAL advantage. But they need to get out in front and make it not worth Canon's time. Which means a new 645d, soon. Plus more support in the lens, accessories and software areas.
Smart companies create new opportunities, expand current markets and create new markets. Pentax brand did that only once, 60 years ago. They also entered MF digital market 3 years ago and did nothing; didn't expand the market, nor created anything new from it. They are sleepers.

So Ricoh seems to be incapable to lead there.

If Canon enters that market, they surely aim to conquer it, lead and expand, to make it worth entering. Creating all new game of new values.

Which means, other players will soon become marginalised. Canon won't enter it with one camera and one new lens, and wait two more years to make another, for God's sake! And what is most important, they won't depend on some small chip maker to deliver them ancient tech MF sensors; they can do all sensor tech in house.

And that is one reason why Ricoh Imaging will most likely always be the follower, or, "an alternative" to industry leading providers. Ricoh obviously has Canon as a role model, but doesn't have Canon's pastures.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-03-2013 at 12:47 AM.
10-03-2013, 01:07 AM   #833
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Smart companies create new opportunities, expand current markets and create new markets. Pentax brand did that only once, 60 years ago. They also entered MF digital market 3 years ago and did nothing; didn't expand the market, nor created anything new from it. They are sleepers.

So Ricoh seems to be incapable to lead there.

If Canon enters that market, they surely aim to conquer it, lead and expand, to make it worth entering. Creating all new game of new values.

Which means, other players will soon become marginalised. Canon won't enter it with one camera and one new lens, and wait two more years to make another, for God's sake! And what is most important, they won't depend on some small chip maker to deliver them ancient tech MF sensors; they can do all sensor tech in house.

And that is one reason why Ricoh Imaging will most likely always be the follower, or, "an alternative" to industry leading providers. Ricoh obviously has Canon as a role model, but doesn't have Canon's pastures.
Holy moly! That's what I mean....I thought that Pentax had a system already, just W/O digital back/camera for MF...while Canon has nothing, Zero, plans...so they have to come up with all bells and whistles...Suddenly it makes Pentax sleepers, gradually expanding with digital also. Also being most affordable MF system by the date, with possible Update behind the corner...plans, but still having one at pro/entustic shooters hands already. ! ? ! So far Canooon MF looks like pentax FF, and still Canon looks better

10-03-2013, 01:36 AM   #834
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Holy moly! That's what I mean....I thought that Pentax had a system already, just W/O digital back/camera for MF...while Canon has nothing, Zero, plans...so they have to come up with all bells and whistles...Suddenly it makes Pentax sleepers, gradually expanding with digital also. Also being most affordable MF system by the date, with possible Update behind the corner...plans, but still having one at pro/entustic shooters hands already. ! ? ! So far Canooon MF looks like pentax FF, and still Canon looks better
7000 EUR right now in brick and mortar shops (at least in Köln).
10-03-2013, 01:42 AM   #835
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
7000 EUR right now in brick and mortar shops (at least in Köln).
And more affordable MF in digital is?

BTW, In Finland it can be had for 6995€, with D-FA 55 lens. 6000, body only.
10-03-2013, 01:56 AM   #836
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
And more affordable MF in digital is?

BTW, In Finland it can be had for 6995€, with D-FA 55 lens. 6000, body only.
Even better

AFAIK the Pentax is the cheapest. Mamiya has low priced bodies (relatively speaking... hum) but without the back, no sensor.
B&H lists 9999 for Mamiya DM with 22MP sensor.
10-03-2013, 02:49 AM   #837
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Well when Canon buys PhaseOne, that isn´t turned overnight in a profatable bussiness. Canon can put their knowledge in new camera´s, but customerbase is very small and there is no crossing between the Canon-PhaseOne users and the studioshooters with 1Dx ir 5D III other then using the same proservice in the future. No lenses to share or other products.
10-03-2013, 03:33 AM   #838
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
So far Canooon MF looks like pentax FF, and still Canon looks better
No, you have missed my point. If Canon comes to MF market, make sure they won't play around and waste everyone's time, but will conquer it like a storm, and connect it thoroughly with the industry-standard FF offer, which no other MF manufacturer (except niche Leica M) has or can dream about.
From day one, Canon's MF will be most likely be able to use all EOS lenses and all accessories, making a transition from FF to MF seamless for all enthusiasts, in the manner their 5D strategy (a shift from APS-C to FF) worked.
There is a good reason Canon is number 1.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-03-2013 at 03:42 AM.
10-03-2013, 03:46 AM   #839
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
(...)
From day one, Canon's MF will most likely be able to use all EOS lenses and all accessories, making a transition from FF to MF seamless for all enthusiasts, in the manner their 5D strategy (a shift from APS-C to FF) worked.
There is a good reason Canon is number 1.
In crop mode in any case; with their mirror locked up and in live view mode if Canon's medium format cameras are DSLRs ...
10-03-2013, 04:06 AM   #840
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No, you have missed my point. If Canon comes to MF market, make sure they won't play around and waste everyone's time, but will conquer it like a storm, and connect it thoroughly with the industry-standard FF offer, which no other MF manufacturer (except niche Leica M) has or can dream about.
From day one, Canon's MF will be most likely be able to use all EOS lenses and all accessories, making a transition from FF to MF seamless for all enthusiasts, in the manner their 5D strategy (a shift from APS-C to FF) worked.
There is a good reason Canon is number 1.
Aalright. I see, IfF canon will take that step, for example buying Phase one or making one of their one from scratch, I bet that they have great distribution channels and they do not hesitate to use it. I think that it would be only way for them, and agree with you on this. But there is also greater risk in this too, so we might not see that wave coming near future. An patching MF lens selection wit FF lenses....? C'om on, that does not suite to this plan at all. If they go big, it should be big.

Anyway. I think that pentax has taken wise steps and shown this far, what they wan't and need to do. Ricoh, is trying to make it more profitable, so they can improve more. It takes a lot of effort to climb up so that you have solid base.

But we all know this, and we love to have head up in the dreams, not to think much further. Atleast I like it.
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