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10-04-2013, 11:13 AM   #886
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
No offense meant, but for Ricoh to talk about EVF technology being "not yet sufficiently advanced" while we are holding in our hands Nex cameras with OLED EVF, and enjoying the experience; well its good for a laugh. I just hope they have something more interesting than OLED EVF to write about in their future advertising.
Another person offended by advertising? The goal of advertising is to identify your product to people who might use it. You seem to be offended that Ricoh doesn't cater to you. Well, we're glad you're happy with your NEX. Maybe you could find it somewhere in your heart to be glad most Pentax users are happy, without OLED or EVFs. Or are you saying you know what should make us happy, without regards to whether it does or not?

10-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #887
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Stop with this nonsense. There's no reason for Pentax to abandon the K-mount and the much larger DSLR market, in order to start from scratch with a new MILC system.
Those wanting to migrate to MILCs should do so, without asking for entire companies to migrate with them. There are lots of options, just choose one! Even worse, you're implying that we, those who like Pentax for what it is - a traditional SLR manufacturer - should be completely disregarded and either forced to go MILC or to jump ship. You have the guts to decide what's "OK" for me!
It is possible for Ricoh/Pentax to introduce MILCs with a shorter registration distance without abandoning the K-mount!

A mount with a shorter registration distance but with the availability of a glassless converter with full control capability to cater for existing K-mount lenses satisfies those criteria.

Some (not all) new lenses would use the new registration distance and not be usable on dSLRs. There would be a gradual migration towards MILC over years. It would not happen within a year.
10-04-2013, 12:04 PM - 1 Like   #888
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What precisely would be the benefits of a new mount? I don't get it.
Perhaps because I have the K-01, a smallish camera that takes my standard lenses. Instead of a new mount, I would very much prefer a K-02, WR throughout, including the lens. It should not just look rugged. A few millimetres smaller body does not make much difference. OK, it cannot be pocketable, but how relevant is that for a system camera. Rather give it a better grip and an integrated viewfinder. And the more rugged the better.
10-04-2013, 12:06 PM   #889
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
It is possible for Ricoh/Pentax to introduce MILCs with a shorter registration distance without abandoning the K-mount!

A mount with a shorter registration distance but with the availability of a glassless converter with full control capability to cater for existing K-mount lenses satisfies those criteria.

Some (not all) new lenses would use the new registration distance and not be usable on dSLRs. There would be a gradual migration towards MILC over years. It would not happen within a year.
Certainly, it is possible; and in few years it might even be a good idea to do so, but not now, not at the expense of the K-mount.

Right now, I'd say they must work on "fixing" the K-mount, because there's unrealised potential and room for growth with it. It's either try to break into double digits on the DSLR market, or control over 50% of the MILC one... I wonder which is more realistic

One thing that MILC propaganda is forgetting is that most people don't want to migrate to MILCs. An adapter is only good if one wants to adapt his lenses.
And by the way, I'm curious why this propaganda, against a traditional SLR manufacturer? Maybe they're not satisfied with their MILCs, hoping that Pentax would somehow save the day?

10-04-2013, 12:35 PM   #890
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Certainly, it is possible; and in few years it might even be a good idea to do so, but not now, not at the expense of the K-mount.

Right now, I'd say they must work on "fixing" the K-mount, because there's unrealised potential and room for growth with it. It's either try to break into double digits on the DSLR market, or control over 50% of the MILC one... I wonder which is more realistic

One thing that MILC propaganda is forgetting is that most people don't want to migrate to MILCs. An adapter is only good if one wants to adapt his lenses.
And by the way, I'm curious why this propaganda, against a traditional SLR manufacturer? Maybe they're not satisfied with their MILCs, hoping that Pentax would somehow save the day?
+1...
10-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #891
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  1. Nex has shown that MILC's can be extremely effective photographic tools
  2. Slim, skinny, pretty, shiny, hipster camera bodies are fun to carry around. A dSLR is a pain in the tookas, no matter how you go about carrying it around, and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
  3. A Pentax dSLR is a pain in the tookas, makes you look like a nerdy old man and doesn't even have cool white zoom lenses to impress the other baby-shooters around you.
    1. Unless you carry a Pentax film camera. Then you are a cool nerdy old man. If it is an MZ-S and FA* zoom Nikon shooters will even grin at the "inside joke."
10-04-2013, 01:42 PM   #892
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
A Pentax dSLR is a pain in the tookas, makes you look like a nerdy old man
You say it like there's something wrong with that. And I have a White K-x, white K-01 and white 18-55...
10-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #893
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
HEY! I resemble that comment!

I had a White K-x until I got my black K-5 (now K-5II).
If I *really* want to look like a nerdy old man I turn to my black Spotmatic with the 8 element Super Takumar 50mm f1.4 or maybe my Tele-Takumar 200mm f5.6 preset. And put my Pentax spotmeter on my belt.


10-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #894
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
And put my Pentax spotmeter an onion on my belt.
. . .which was the style at the time.
10-04-2013, 02:03 PM   #895
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
HEY! I resemble that comment!

I had a White K-x until I got my black K-5 (now K-5II).
If I *really* want to look like a nerdy old man I turn to my black Spotmatic with the 8 element Super Takumar 50mm f1.4 or maybe my Tele-Takumar 200mm f5.6 preset. And put my Pentax spotmeter on my belt.
QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
. . .which was the style at the time.
I had a Lunasix 3, studio class and all.
10-04-2013, 08:54 PM   #896
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I have to confide that i've become an "agnostic" when it comes to tribal loyalty to any particular camera brand. And it isn't just me. Tribal loyalties to Nikon, Canon, Pentax manufacturers seem to be collapsing in spectacular fashion as younger and older generations buy significant smart phones to take some or all of their pictures with. A fellow member in a camera club has, with his wife, about $30,000 invested in Nikon FF cameras and "bird" lenses. But lately he's been showing pictures taken with an iphone and is talking about upgrading his phone to the latest offering.

One has to admit, that when camera sales are down 43% from 2012, that something momentous is happening to the photographic world. I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.

So spare me this drama over claims that mirrorless fans are trying to force their cameras on the unwashed dslr owners The DSLR owners may in fact be unwashed, but I care only about beautiful pictures, and those can be taken with either kind of cameras. Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.

Last edited by philbaum; 10-04-2013 at 09:00 PM.
10-04-2013, 09:56 PM   #897
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.
I can sleep now knowing I have your approval
10-05-2013, 12:16 AM   #898
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Unless you carry a Pentax film camera. Then you are a cool nerdy old man. If it is an MZ-S and FA* zoom Nikon shooters will even grin at the "inside joke."
Heh, what do you think I look like with a Cambo SCII on my tripod?

10-05-2013, 12:30 AM   #899
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I can sleep now knowing I have your approval
Well, i don't know why you think you need approval, but i suppose you could go to the head of your tribe, Pentax. Course Pentax isn't a tribe any longer, its just a "brand". Maybe if you contacted Ricoh, they could give you approval
10-05-2013, 01:43 AM   #900
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I have to confide that i've become an "agnostic" when it comes to tribal loyalty to any particular camera brand. And it isn't just me. Tribal loyalties to Nikon, Canon, Pentax manufacturers seem to be collapsing in spectacular fashion as younger and older generations buy significant smart phones to take some or all of their pictures with. A fellow member in a camera club has, with his wife, about $30,000 invested in Nikon FF cameras and "bird" lenses. But lately he's been showing pictures taken with an iphone and is talking about upgrading his phone to the latest offering.

One has to admit, that when camera sales are down 43% from 2012, that something momentous is happening to the photographic world. I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.

So spare me this drama over claims that mirrorless fans are trying to force their cameras on the unwashed dslr owners The DSLR owners may in fact be unwashed, but I care only about beautiful pictures, and those can be taken with either kind of cameras. Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.
FTR:
ILC camera market is down by less than 20%, and part of that is the overproduction done in 2012. Both DSLRs and MILCs "declined" by the same amount, thus it can't be used to favour either.
What can be used, is the relative size of the DSLR vs MILC markets - over 5:1, and the existence of a K-mount user base.

Trying to make us some sort of religious sect is downright insulting, and illustrates perfectly the kind of mental attitude I was talking about.
In reality, it's just about preferences: preferring optical viewfinders to EVFs, being happy with the K-mount system, wanting to use the existing lenses without the extra hassle of having to adapt them.
We never tried to deny your right to use/prefer MILCs, we're fine with the multitude of choices; it's the other way around. It's you who are saying that we should be ignored, because we're religious zealots, K-mount worshipers, $0.2 flea market lens users and whatever labels you can make up; and that Pentax should forget about making products for us.
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