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10-04-2013, 12:35 PM   #901
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Certainly, it is possible; and in few years it might even be a good idea to do so, but not now, not at the expense of the K-mount.

Right now, I'd say they must work on "fixing" the K-mount, because there's unrealised potential and room for growth with it. It's either try to break into double digits on the DSLR market, or control over 50% of the MILC one... I wonder which is more realistic

One thing that MILC propaganda is forgetting is that most people don't want to migrate to MILCs. An adapter is only good if one wants to adapt his lenses.
And by the way, I'm curious why this propaganda, against a traditional SLR manufacturer? Maybe they're not satisfied with their MILCs, hoping that Pentax would somehow save the day?
+1...

10-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #902
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  1. Nex has shown that MILC's can be extremely effective photographic tools
  2. Slim, skinny, pretty, shiny, hipster camera bodies are fun to carry around. A dSLR is a pain in the tookas, no matter how you go about carrying it around, and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
  3. A Pentax dSLR is a pain in the tookas, makes you look like a nerdy old man and doesn't even have cool white zoom lenses to impress the other baby-shooters around you.
    1. Unless you carry a Pentax film camera. Then you are a cool nerdy old man. If it is an MZ-S and FA* zoom Nikon shooters will even grin at the "inside joke."
10-04-2013, 01:37 PM   #903
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Gotta take exception to these two: in terms of ergonomics and ease of use, the NEX cameras are pretty crappy. Definitely not fun to carry around, and not terribly "effective" compared to DSLRS. The upside of course being the sensors are pretty nice and the adaptability factor.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. Nex has shown that MILC's can be extremely effective photographic tools
  2. Slim, skinny, pretty, shiny, hipster camera bodies are fun to carry around. A dSLR is a pain in the tookas, no matter how you go about carrying it around, and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
10-04-2013, 01:42 PM   #904
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
A Pentax dSLR is a pain in the tookas, makes you look like a nerdy old man
You say it like there's something wrong with that. And I have a White K-x, white K-01 and white 18-55...

10-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #905
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
HEY! I resemble that comment!

I had a White K-x until I got my black K-5 (now K-5II).
If I *really* want to look like a nerdy old man I turn to my black Spotmatic with the 8 element Super Takumar 50mm f1.4 or maybe my Tele-Takumar 200mm f5.6 preset. And put my Pentax spotmeter on my belt.
10-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #906
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
And put my Pentax spotmeter an onion on my belt.
. . .which was the style at the time.
10-04-2013, 02:03 PM   #907
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QuoteOriginally posted by cheekygeek Quote
HEY! I resemble that comment!

I had a White K-x until I got my black K-5 (now K-5II).
If I *really* want to look like a nerdy old man I turn to my black Spotmatic with the 8 element Super Takumar 50mm f1.4 or maybe my Tele-Takumar 200mm f5.6 preset. And put my Pentax spotmeter on my belt.
QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
. . .which was the style at the time.
I had a Lunasix 3, studio class and all.
10-04-2013, 08:54 PM   #908
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I have to confide that i've become an "agnostic" when it comes to tribal loyalty to any particular camera brand. And it isn't just me. Tribal loyalties to Nikon, Canon, Pentax manufacturers seem to be collapsing in spectacular fashion as younger and older generations buy significant smart phones to take some or all of their pictures with. A fellow member in a camera club has, with his wife, about $30,000 invested in Nikon FF cameras and "bird" lenses. But lately he's been showing pictures taken with an iphone and is talking about upgrading his phone to the latest offering.

One has to admit, that when camera sales are down 43% from 2012, that something momentous is happening to the photographic world. I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.

So spare me this drama over claims that mirrorless fans are trying to force their cameras on the unwashed dslr owners The DSLR owners may in fact be unwashed, but I care only about beautiful pictures, and those can be taken with either kind of cameras. Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.


Last edited by philbaum; 10-04-2013 at 09:00 PM.
10-04-2013, 09:56 PM   #909
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.
I can sleep now knowing I have your approval
10-05-2013, 12:16 AM   #910
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Unless you carry a Pentax film camera. Then you are a cool nerdy old man. If it is an MZ-S and FA* zoom Nikon shooters will even grin at the "inside joke."
Heh, what do you think I look like with a Cambo SCII on my tripod?

10-05-2013, 12:30 AM   #911
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I can sleep now knowing I have your approval
Well, i don't know why you think you need approval, but i suppose you could go to the head of your tribe, Pentax. Course Pentax isn't a tribe any longer, its just a "brand". Maybe if you contacted Ricoh, they could give you approval
10-05-2013, 01:43 AM   #912
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I have to confide that i've become an "agnostic" when it comes to tribal loyalty to any particular camera brand. And it isn't just me. Tribal loyalties to Nikon, Canon, Pentax manufacturers seem to be collapsing in spectacular fashion as younger and older generations buy significant smart phones to take some or all of their pictures with. A fellow member in a camera club has, with his wife, about $30,000 invested in Nikon FF cameras and "bird" lenses. But lately he's been showing pictures taken with an iphone and is talking about upgrading his phone to the latest offering.

One has to admit, that when camera sales are down 43% from 2012, that something momentous is happening to the photographic world. I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.

So spare me this drama over claims that mirrorless fans are trying to force their cameras on the unwashed dslr owners The DSLR owners may in fact be unwashed, but I care only about beautiful pictures, and those can be taken with either kind of cameras. Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.
FTR:
ILC camera market is down by less than 20%, and part of that is the overproduction done in 2012. Both DSLRs and MILCs "declined" by the same amount, thus it can't be used to favour either.
What can be used, is the relative size of the DSLR vs MILC markets - over 5:1, and the existence of a K-mount user base.

Trying to make us some sort of religious sect is downright insulting, and illustrates perfectly the kind of mental attitude I was talking about.
In reality, it's just about preferences: preferring optical viewfinders to EVFs, being happy with the K-mount system, wanting to use the existing lenses without the extra hassle of having to adapt them.
We never tried to deny your right to use/prefer MILCs, we're fine with the multitude of choices; it's the other way around. It's you who are saying that we should be ignored, because we're religious zealots, K-mount worshipers, $0.2 flea market lens users and whatever labels you can make up; and that Pentax should forget about making products for us.
10-05-2013, 02:19 AM - 1 Like   #913
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Well, i don't know why you think you need approval, but i suppose you could go to the head of your tribe, Pentax. Course Pentax isn't a tribe any longer, its just a "brand". Maybe if you contacted Ricoh, they could give you approval
I was being a tad sarcastic: I don't need your, or any one else's approval to do what I do or think the way I think. For your information, I am not wedded to Pentax, nor to DSLRs per se. I just happen to like the K-5 very much, and for those rare occasions where I want more pixels (note: want, not need), I have a D800. I like what I am reading and seeing about the K-3 and I reckon it will be fully capable of producing those "beautiful photographs" you mention.
10-05-2013, 07:03 AM   #914
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
One has to admit, that when camera sales are down 43% from 2012, that something momentous is happening to the photographic world. I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.
Let me summarize.
QuoteQuote:
I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago.
You used to worship at the K-mount alter- I'm glad you've recovered. I can't imagine worshipping at any alter, however no one else has admitted they have, rather than than assume others do the same thing, you might want to consider that your were a special case.

QuoteQuote:
Use what you want to use, and if you can get the job done with a film camera - thats fine by me as well.
I was already using what I want to use, and it doesn't include a NEX. I have a Pentax Optio W10 for my small format camera, waterproof, shock proof. I have a Sigma DP2 because it gives me superior IQ in a small footprint on occasion. ALl people are asking would be that you acknowledge some of us get along without a Nex, and that doesn't make us one brand neanderthals. That characterization is completely out of line.
10-05-2013, 09:16 AM - 1 Like   #915
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
... I stopped worshiping at the K-Mount Altar when i bought my first Nex camera 2 years ago. Today, I use my Pentax equipment in situations where it works best, and i use my mirrorless camera in situations where it works best. In the same way that i don't "worship" a camera manufacturer, I don't worship Stanley or Craftsman just because i may have their tools at hand.

So spare me this drama over claims that mirrorless fans are trying to force their cameras on the unwashed dslr owners
I'm completely on board with the idea using the photo gear that suits you best. However, when I have written about my choices in the past, on this forum (I don't post about gear much anymore for obvious reasons), responses include the following. For the record I have a both DSLR and a MILC:

1) my mind was called "rubbish" when I described what I experience when looking through OVF vs. EVF,

2) I was ridiculed as irrelevant in photography because my gear is more than 2 years old,

3) I was accused of having alterior motives in stating a preference for OVF (the supposed motive being that the only possible reason someone could prefer using a DSLR is to protect a huge investment in lenses, because mirrorless machines are superior in every single way, and since personal cost is too transparent a motive, I hid it behind the OVF argument).

Thankfully, I haven't seen you engage in such personal vitriolic rhetoric. But there are some mirrorless advocates on this forum who do so. Their weapon of choice is a the verbal form of the whack-a-mole bat. Any expression of admiration or usefullness of non-milc gear is subjected to a swift beating. Using the best camera for the task at hand, indeed.

Such attitudes are non-becoming to photography enthusiasts, and it does in fact become tiresome to those of us on the receiving end.

Last edited by cfraz; 10-05-2013 at 09:38 AM.
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