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10-08-2013, 07:02 AM   #946
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QuoteOriginally posted by PBandJ Quote
In another? thread, Uluru, who seems to have some 'unique insight', suggests that 2 models might be announced around Jan. One higher than the K3, and 1 lower.
FF and k-5iii !
FF is coming...(as a next X-mas gift).

10-08-2013, 09:33 AM   #947
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I just can't conceive that Canon and Nikon are going to sit idly by, and watch Sony have the only mirrorless ILC FF cameras without starting their own efforts towards a mirrorless ILC FF cameras (that ultimately will replace the DSLR). Sure, Sony doesn't have, i think, the lenses to compete full on with the Nikon and Canon lines, but third party lens mfrs could help with that.
Sony's mirrorless E-mount mirrorless ILF FF camera constitutes absolutely no threat to Canon's and Nikon's DSLRs, and here's why: the Sony system is a compact mirrorless camera, and there's only a very small number of FF lenses that make sense with such a camera. The mainstay lenses for the Canon and Nikon FF DSLRs are the constant aperture zooms. These lenses are way too large for a compact ILC system. Are we really going to see photographers running around shooting 70-200 f2.8 lenses on a NEX-like body? Not likely. For this reason, compact ILC mirrorless constitutes no short term threat to DSLRs.

What about a mirrorless ILCs large enough to balance with the bigger zoom lenses favored by most photographers? If mirrorless does turn out to be "the future," as the gearheads keep predicting, that is the sort of camera we'll likely see. However, if you're going to make a mirrorless camera large enough to balance SLR zoom lenses, there's no reason not to simply keep the SLR mount. After all, when have adapters ever been adapted by large numbers of consumers? So there's no compelling reason for Pentax to develop a new mount. If the market moves toward mirrorless, they can simply do what they've already done: make a mirrorless K-mount camera.

The current market for compact mirrorless is smaller (in terms of customers) and more crowded (in terms of producers) than the DSLR market. Compact mirrorless was oversold by the gearheads, and led to a huge number of what were essentially P&S cameras with large sensors which could only sell at firesale prices. Companies like Olympus and Panasonic are now shifting to the high-end market, which is much smaller and way too crowded, with too many camera models chasing too few customers. It would make no sense for Pentax to try to enter this market, particularly at the expense of their SLR customers, most of whom wish to have a camera that they can use, natively and comfortably, with the lenses they have invested in.
10-08-2013, 09:37 AM   #948
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
I do understand the argument. I simply don't believe what you say is the whole truth, and misses the point.

I won't bother with more here, because I've said it at length before, and I haven't seen what I consider to be credible responses from you.
Your choice. Continue to believe that "arguments against such an adapter appear to be classic FUD", instead of a simple matter of choice and preference, even consider that's the "whole truth", and "credible" - if that's what you want. Completely ignore my/our position, it's easier this way.
Have a nice day!

northcoastgreg: what's interesting is that Sony started to make SLR-like "NEX" (E-mount) cameras, like the A3000; that's about the same size as a DSLR. Would they follow the same approach for a "pro FF" MILC? It would be better balanced with large lenses, but then what would be the advantage over a DSLR?

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-08-2013 at 09:45 AM.
10-08-2013, 05:54 PM   #949
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Expense and ease of manufacture has always been the argument. Weight, too, perhaps, but then you run back into that balance problem again. The Panny GH series are "SLR-like," at least in form, and even they are not great to use with adapted zooms. And they are nothing like the nightmare that is your typical NEX, which even with the kit lens is horribly, horribly imbalanced. A shame, too, since I've been very impressed by their sensor tech.

Of course I am in your camp when it comes to predicting the future of DSLR. Until EVF comes much further than it has, MILC simply won't be the the tool that performance shooters are looking for. MILC will continually chip away wehre it has - at the bottom of the Prosumer market, and to a more limited extent with video shooters, but DSLR will remain the big selling flagships (i.e. those models where users aren't interested in compromising specs for size/expense) for the foreseeable future.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
northcoastgreg: what's interesting is that Sony started to make SLR-like "NEX" (E-mount) cameras, like the A3000; that's about the same size as a DSLR. Would they follow the same approach for a "pro FF" MILC? It would be better balanced with large lenses, but then what would be the advantage over a DSLR?


10-08-2013, 07:03 PM   #950
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
And of course the FullFrame. Which could be the source of the 40MP rumor wrt the K-3. Or did they mix up the 4K movie function with the megapixel count???
I hope they didn't. 'twould be a blast if the said 40MP rumor proves true... though I'm not interested in purchasing one. Yet.
10-08-2013, 11:43 PM   #951
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. Nex has shown that MILC's can be extremely effective photographic tools
  2. Slim, skinny, pretty, shiny, hipster camera bodies are fun to carry around. A dSLR is a pain in the tookas, no matter how you go about carrying it around, and makes you look like a nerdy old man.
  3. A Pentax dSLR is a pain in the tookas, makes you look like a nerdy old man and doesn't even have cool white zoom lenses to impress the other baby-shooters around you.
    1. Unless you carry a Pentax film camera. Then you are a cool nerdy old man. If it is an MZ-S and FA* zoom Nikon shooters will even grin at the "inside joke."
Skinny hipster cameras may be "fun" to carry around but I am not nearly as into my M43 cam as I am into my DSLR, bulk or not. Why? Because I can actually see to take a shot in the bright sun with it. I don't really have $200 to drop on an EVF that IMHO should have come with the darned thing in the first place given it's a PITA to use outside. With only an LCD to use I can't hardly do that with the Oly. The LCD just fades out in situations like that rendering the camera basically useless for most outdoors work. Little cams are cute and I like them because they take all kinds of lenses and are sneaky and that's helpful in certain places, but I still would not trade my DSLR for one permanently. Cool is a state of mind. I don't need other people to decide I am cool. I don't care what other people think of my camera. Or me. I only care about ease of use and about the pics I make with it. If I just wanted to be popular or thought "cool" I'd be content following the herd and shooting with a Nikon or Canon. I'm quite deliberately ignoring all that nonsense by using Pentax. I'd much rather be unhip if it means I have a great quality and less expensive camera in my hands. When it comes to cameras I'm all about pics, not hype, shrug.
10-09-2013, 03:26 AM   #952
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QuoteOriginally posted by PBandJ Quote
In another? thread, Uluru, who seems to have some 'unique insight', suggests that 2 models might be announced around Jan. One higher than the K3, and 1 lower.
Uluru also posted the following pearls of wisdom, much earlier in this thread, using his 'unique insight':

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
A very reliable source of information re Pentax said: look for September 5th press conference organised by Ricoh Imaging.
That's Thursday, FYI..
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Hah, you may be surprised.

13th 15th of September, the largest photo show in the southern hemisphere is organised in Melbourne. Latest cameras and photographic tidbits in Pentax and Ricoh brands will be presented as well. Judging by their enthusiasm, CR Kennedy guys are readying a big splash.
http://www.thedigitalshow.com.au/exhibitor-brands/

I expect to lay down hands on the mythical new K-3, and maybe even new 645D well before many of Pentax users elsewhere have a chance (apart form those who visit IFA show in Berlin, starting September 5th). Anyway, if anything's presented at IFA, I presume will be available for a preview in Melbourne as well.

I'll keep you posted.
Bring your salt shaker
10-09-2013, 03:33 AM   #953
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He wasn't far off... 1 month isn't bad...

But I would prefer in this instance that he be wrong...

I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.

That said, even if the FF does get announced, I'll be quite content with my Silver K-3

10-09-2013, 03:37 AM   #954
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.
Why? An FF camera is a completely different tool. Getting an FF usually doesn't mean you won't be needing or using your APS-C camera again.

An FF Pentax DSLR doesn't exist yet, so nothing will be trumped.
10-09-2013, 03:40 AM   #955
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Why? An FF camera is a completely different tool. Getting an FF usually doesn't mean you won't be needing or using your APS-C camera again.

An FF Pentax DSLR doesn't exist yet, so nothing will be trumped.
Well, they're not stupid - they'd do the same thing as Nikon with the DX crop mode or whatever it is on their FF's.
10-09-2013, 03:42 AM   #956
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.
Of course it does, if the FF camera is $500 more (or more) expensive than the K-3.

Also, I'd say that a K-3 would be a much wiser choice for the average prosumer given the number of available new lenses for that format. Unless Pentax suddenly comes out with a plethora of FF lenses when the K-1 is announced (like they did when announcing the M series of cameras in the mid-70's of the previous century; ever seen the picture of the complete M system?).
10-09-2013, 03:43 AM   #957
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
H
I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.
If we stick to the core of the rumor, one camera higher than the K-3 and one lower, the high-end camera could be the 645DII. The lower-end could very well be a 24mp K-50 successor, after all the K-50 was really just a K-30 with cosmetic changes.
10-09-2013, 03:47 AM   #958
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Of course it does, if the FF camera is $500 more (or more) expensive than the K-3.

Also, I'd say that a K-3 would be a much wiser choice for the average prosumer given the number of available new lenses for that format. Unless Pentax suddenly comes out with a plethora of FF lenses when the K-1 is announced (like they did when announcing the M series of cameras in the mid-70's of the previous century; ever seen the picture of the complete M system?).
Good point. The cost of entry into a Pentax FF system is more than the camera simply being more expensive - most people will need at least a couple of new lenses.
10-09-2013, 04:40 AM   #959
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QuoteOriginally posted by Vylen Quote
Well, they're not stupid - they'd do the same thing as Nikon with the DX crop mode or whatever it is on their FF's.
But you do assume that users are stupid enough to quit using APS-C and just use the crop mode of an FF, not noticing the loss of MP's? Users that invest in FF body and lenses for a slight IQ advantage no less. That's funny.
10-09-2013, 04:45 AM   #960
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But you do assume that users are stupid enough to quit using APS-C and just use the crop mode of an FF, not noticing the loss of MP's? Users that invest in FF body and lenses for a slight IQ advantage no less. That's funny.
Uh no, I assume people have a mix of APS-C and FF lenses.
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