New Camera/s by Christmas

Uluru · 08-20-2013, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

...I dislike this camera from Samsung too, but they did hit the nail on its head for their targeted user group. They didn't force it through their noses, they did what their users asked from them.
Pentax has a different kind of users though...

I presume you're right. I have one Samsung product, a refrigerator, and it is a good device — despite the fact that its interior design could've been further enhanced and polished up. But I'm not keen on their cameras.

**Rondec** · 08-20-2013, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by cali92rs

I disagree regarding the Nikon lacking imagination assumption. I think the 1 series can be a great platform if it were priced correctly.

The 1 series may be a great platform. The Q probably would be too. But it just isn't what most of the Pentax forumites are looking for. And if you are looking for a "better" APS-C or full frame SLR, I just don't know what the next driver of camera sales will be -- connectivity, I suppose, but I could care less about that...

theperception2008 · 08-20-2013, 03:58 AM

Well Kodak thought that film would never be replaced by "sensors" and Newspapers thought that digital was not worth investing in. So all the die hard i don't like change companies have either been bankrupt (Kodak) or bought out by billionaires for fun(newspapers). So catering to a hardcore demographic is not necessarily the way to go. Samsung tries to overwhelm the market via saturation. That method also has its problems, overlapping models with no clear differentiation is a big issue. Just food for thought.

Clavius · 08-20-2013, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I just don't know what the next driver of camera sales will be -- connectivity, I suppose, but I could care less about that...

Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem".

A good driver always has been, and still is: lenses. Good, high quality lenses. Which is something the smartphone or tablet can't replace anytime soon.

I was lured towards Pentax because they had a lens the other brands didn't really offer. The backwards compatibility sealed the deal. More specialty lenses would certainly attract people and publicity.

bvg · 08-20-2013, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

What I hate about Samsung's implementation is that they have blatantly, without any extra thought and without any refinement

I have had two Samsung's P&S, both have fantastic AF (even video AF works). When I bought Sony's P&S I was shocked, I felt like it cannot focus at all. I urgently sold it at Ebay and bought another Samsung. The first Samsung was greatly adjusted and sharp as well. Maybe not anything is so bad with Samsung.

theperception2008 · 08-20-2013, 04:31 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem".

A good driver always has been, and still is: lenses. Good, high quality lenses. Which is something the smartphone or tablet can't replace anytime soon.

I was lured towards Pentax because they had a lens the other brands didn't really offer. The backwards compatibility sealed the deal. More specialty lenses would certainly attract people and publicity.

Pentax has been pushing the WR attribute more than any other manufacture. Panasonic's top zoom lenses were released featuring weather seals, but none of their cameras at the time even had weather proofing! With the DAL kits offering weather sealing, I'm expecting a mmii limiteds with weather seals, especially the FA's. DFA 100 Macro WR already exists which possibly meant that others were planned but stopped development during Hoya the years, which was focused on profitability only.

Now with Ricoh where they want their sales/market share to grow, I think we will be getting new stuff soon, just a gut feeling.

Clavius · 08-20-2013, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by bvg

I have had two Samsung's P&S, both have fantastic AF (even video AF works). When I bought Sony's P&S I was shocked, I felt like it cannot focus at all. I urgently sold it at Ebay and bought another Samsung. The first Samsung was greatly adjusted and sharp as well. Maybe not anything is so bad with Samsung.

Wow, I know a expensive brand that can't even do that in their top of the line flagship APS-C DSLR.

**monochrome** · 08-20-2013, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem".

Pentax seems to be moving in this direction for Q and GR using Firmware that detects an Eye-Fi card is installed and calls up context-sensitive menus. It wouldn't be a reach to imagine a radio on a main board and a license from Eye-Fi to have native connectivity. Eye-Fi, BTW, works pretty well for immediate transfer of jpeg's to phones and tablets whether a wi-fi network is present, the device is a direct connection, using the cloud or making the device a wi-fi hotspot. For those who want it, better quality social media images are here now.

The time lag and complexity issue comes when transferring large RAW files to a computer or when "marking" files for limited transfers. But that is an infrastructure problem, I think, not a Pentax problem.

Uluru · 08-20-2013, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by theperception2008

Pentax has been pushing the WR attribute more than any other manufacture...

I presume that is where they see some advantage for themselves. Or al least, that is what we think they aim to do.

However, the entire JFY 2012 (April 2012 – April 2013), was very confusing regarding their WR strategy:
- K-30 camera was offered mostly with non-WR lenses,
- there was no entry level DSLR at all,
- two small plastic primes were not WR,
- even the DA560 is not a DA* lens (like DA*200 and DA*300).
- only since June 2013, WR kit lenses are part of K-50 kits.

If the WR is their strategy, then aren't they coming late to it? Because they've lost good 2 years flipping the coin "WR — yes or no?".

gazonk · 08-20-2013, 05:21 AM

I like that the thumbnail picture for this thread now is a bundle of leek

**Aristophanes** · 08-20-2013, 06:36 AM

Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge.

Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales.

In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$.

Clavius · 08-20-2013, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge.

Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales.

In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$.

True... The post-processing-starved straight-out-of-the-camera crowd will love it. If it will fix the declining camera sales a little bit, I'm all for it. I'll just turn it off. Unless it will enable wireless tethering, now that would be magic.

**monochrome** · 08-20-2013, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge.

Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales.

In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$.

Eye-Fi is expensive. It is temporary (were I the patent holder I'd be seeking ways to monetise future cash flows now) but it isn't necessarily a kludge. The real issue for all this photo streaming will always be cellular data plan cost. As more and more devices have embedded connectivity consumers will become dependent - right up until they get the over-limit bill. Then we'll see who really needs Instagram.

Home/Business Network Wi-Fi transferring and tethering is an entirely different matter. Data streaming on captive Wi-Fi networks is essentially free, it is fast and it can be made secure. The question is whether it is more of and better at all three than a regular card transfer.

gazonk · 08-20-2013, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

True... The post-processing-starved straight-out-of-the-camera crowd will love it. If it will fix the declining camera sales a little bit, I'm all for it. I'll just turn it off. Unless it will enable wireless tethering, now that would be magic.

Please, please add wifi and an open tethering protocol so anyone (maybe I'll even have time myself) can write an app (for anything) to control the camera (with anything)

**rod_grant** · 08-20-2013, 11:26 PM

I haven't read all the posts (got to about page 6), but since Poit has admitted his domicile in Australia, the rest of the world can look forward to the new camera(s) earlier than Christmas! Australia is always late to get new releases.

08-20-2013, 04:59 AM	#144
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by theperception2008 Pentax has been pushing the WR attribute more than any other manufacture... I presume that is where they see some advantage for themselves. Or al least, that is what we think they aim to do. However, the entire JFY 2012 (April 2012 – April 2013), was very confusing regarding their WR strategy: - K-30 camera was offered mostly with non-WR lenses, - there was no entry level DSLR at all, - two small plastic primes were not WR, - even the DA560 is not a DA* lens (like DA200 and DA300). - only since June 2013, WR kit lenses are part of K-50 kits. If the WR is their strategy, then aren't they coming late to it? Because they've lost good 2 years flipping the coin "WR — yes or no?". Last edited by Uluru; 08-20-2013 at 05:23 AM.

08-20-2013, 06:46 AM	#147
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Aristophanes Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge. Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales. In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$. True... The post-processing-starved straight-out-of-the-camera crowd will love it. If it will fix the declining camera sales a little bit, I'm all for it. I'll just turn it off. Unless it will enable wireless tethering, now that would be magic. Last edited by Clavius; 08-20-2013 at 06:59 AM.

08-20-2013, 06:53 AM	#148
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Aristophanes Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge. Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales. In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$. Eye-Fi is expensive. It is temporary (were I the patent holder I'd be seeking ways to monetise future cash flows now) but it isn't necessarily a kludge. The real issue for all this photo streaming will always be cellular data plan cost. As more and more devices have embedded connectivity consumers will become dependent - right up until they get the over-limit bill. Then we'll see who really needs Instagram. Home/Business Network Wi-Fi transferring and tethering is an entirely different matter. Data streaming on captive Wi-Fi networks is essentially free, it is fast and it can be made secure. The question is whether it is more of and better at all three than a regular card transfer. Last edited by monochrome; 08-23-2013 at 09:00 AM.

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08-20-2013, 03:30 AM	#136
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Clavius ...I dislike this camera from Samsung too, but they did hit the nail on its head for their targeted user group. They didn't force it through their noses, they did what their users asked from them. Pentax has a different kind of users though... I presume you're right. I have one Samsung product, a refrigerator, and it is a good device — despite the fact that its interior design could've been further enhanced and polished up. But I'm not keen on their cameras.

08-20-2013, 03:47 AM	#137
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by cali92rs I disagree regarding the Nikon lacking imagination assumption. I think the 1 series can be a great platform if it were priced correctly. The 1 series may be a great platform. The Q probably would be too. But it just isn't what most of the Pentax forumites are looking for. And if you are looking for a "better" APS-C or full frame SLR, I just don't know what the next driver of camera sales will be -- connectivity, I suppose, but I could care less about that...

08-20-2013, 03:58 AM	#138
theperception2008 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Łódź, Poland and Riverside, California, U.S.A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 488	Well Kodak thought that film would never be replaced by "sensors" and Newspapers thought that digital was not worth investing in. So all the die hard i don't like change companies have either been bankrupt (Kodak) or bought out by billionaires for fun(newspapers). So catering to a hardcore demographic is not necessarily the way to go. Samsung tries to overwhelm the market via saturation. That method also has its problems, overlapping models with no clear differentiation is a big issue. Just food for thought.

08-20-2013, 04:07 AM	#139
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Rondec I just don't know what the next driver of camera sales will be -- connectivity, I suppose, but I could care less about that... Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem". A good driver always has been, and still is: lenses. Good, high quality lenses. Which is something the smartphone or tablet can't replace anytime soon. I was lured towards Pentax because they had a lens the other brands didn't really offer. The backwards compatibility sealed the deal. More specialty lenses would certainly attract people and publicity.

08-20-2013, 04:31 AM	#140
bvg Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Queensland, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 340	Originally posted by Uluru What I hate about Samsung's implementation is that they have blatantly, without any extra thought and without any refinement I have had two Samsung's P&S, both have fantastic AF (even video AF works). When I bought Sony's P&S I was shocked, I felt like it cannot focus at all. I urgently sold it at Ebay and bought another Samsung. The first Samsung was greatly adjusted and sharp as well. Maybe not anything is so bad with Samsung.

08-20-2013, 04:31 AM	#141
theperception2008 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Łódź, Poland and Riverside, California, U.S.A Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 488	Originally posted by Clavius Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem". A good driver always has been, and still is: lenses. Good, high quality lenses. Which is something the smartphone or tablet can't replace anytime soon. I was lured towards Pentax because they had a lens the other brands didn't really offer. The backwards compatibility sealed the deal. More specialty lenses would certainly attract people and publicity. Pentax has been pushing the WR attribute more than any other manufacture. Panasonic's top zoom lenses were released featuring weather seals, but none of their cameras at the time even had weather proofing! With the DAL kits offering weather sealing, I'm expecting a mmii limiteds with weather seals, especially the FA's. DFA 100 Macro WR already exists which possibly meant that others were planned but stopped development during Hoya the years, which was focused on profitability only. Now with Ricoh where they want their sales/market share to grow, I think we will be getting new stuff soon, just a gut feeling.

08-20-2013, 04:33 AM	#142
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by bvg I have had two Samsung's P&S, both have fantastic AF (even video AF works). When I bought Sony's P&S I was shocked, I felt like it cannot focus at all. I urgently sold it at Ebay and bought another Samsung. The first Samsung was greatly adjusted and sharp as well. Maybe not anything is so bad with Samsung. Wow, I know a expensive brand that can't even do that in their top of the line flagship APS-C DSLR.

08-20-2013, 04:35 AM	#143
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Clavius Connectivity can be found in tablets and smartphone. And better connectivity at that. Moreover, an eyefi card will solve the connectivity "problem". Pentax seems to be moving in this direction for Q and GR using Firmware that detects an Eye-Fi card is installed and calls up context-sensitive menus. It wouldn't be a reach to imagine a radio on a main board and a license from Eye-Fi to have native connectivity. Eye-Fi, BTW, works pretty well for immediate transfer of jpeg's to phones and tablets whether a wi-fi network is present, the device is a direct connection, using the cloud or making the device a wi-fi hotspot. For those who want it, better quality social media images are here now. The time lag and complexity issue comes when transferring large RAW files to a computer or when "marking" files for limited transfers. But that is an infrastructure problem, I think, not a Pentax problem.

08-20-2013, 05:21 AM	#145
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	I like that the thumbnail picture for this thread now is a bundle of leek

08-20-2013, 06:36 AM	#146
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Eye-fi is an expensive, temporary kludge. Wi-fi in-camera is long overdue and it's MIA in current crops of DSLR's and most mirrorless is a large part of declining sales. In 2 years no one will see in-camera wi-fi as an add-on for extra $$$.

08-20-2013, 07:03 AM	#149
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Clavius True... The post-processing-starved straight-out-of-the-camera crowd will love it. If it will fix the declining camera sales a little bit, I'm all for it. I'll just turn it off. Unless it will enable wireless tethering, now that would be magic. Please, please add wifi and an open tethering protocol so anyone (maybe I'll even have time myself) can write an app (for anything) to control the camera (with anything)

08-20-2013, 11:26 PM	#150
rod_grant Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Wangaratta, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,951	I haven't read all the posts (got to about page 6), but since Poit has admitted his domicile in Australia, the rest of the world can look forward to the new camera(s) earlier than Christmas! Australia is always late to get new releases.