New Camera/s by Christmas

Allison · 09-20-2013, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

If we think about it, aside from Landscape and Studio Pentax hasn't really pursued the major professional image selling markets (wedding/event/sports/wildlife) on a whole host of features ranging from flash sync through AF to shutter speed. I'm not surprised they haven't offered dual card slots either.

If they've been honest about offering a near professional level body some day (whether APSC or FF) they'll need to address a lot more than just dual cards.

You are right here - they are lacking in making a real bid for wedding, event, photojournalist, sports and wildlife pro photographers. You are spot on about where they are lacking (give me better AF - the IIs is better than the K5, but I am hungry for more!) - I also think they need to address fps for sports and wildlife (and that wouldn't hurt my weddings either) and the trends in the wedding industry for good low light performance with FF. But in my opinion it is going to take more than camera specs to make a real bid for those industries. The new flashes are a start, but it will take lenses too, such as the 60-250 would need to be updated to FF (and it wouldn't hurt to get it to 2.8). Given that so much needs to be done to really release a pro level FF dslr, it makes me wonder if they aren't just content to stay with prosumers....

**monochrome** · 09-20-2013, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Allison

Given that so much needs to be done to really release a pro level FF dslr, it makes me wonder if they aren't just content to stay with prosumers..

From what I hear they do intend to make a competitive pro level FF dSLR - but they know how long it will take to get there. The idea is to slot between [EDIT: should have written what today would be] 600 and 800 on price with 90++% of 800 capabilities. From what I hear lenses needs are understood, as well. It is real, but not soon. There will be a difference - the idea is to be an alternative, not just another CaNikonY. Ricoh is smart, patient, quality-oriented and absolutely relentless pursuing its goals. They just plain outlast the other guy.

The intermediate steps will show up on enthusiast/prosumer APSc bodies over time

**Aristophanes** · 09-20-2013, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Allison

they are lacking in making a real bid for wedding, event, photojournalist, sports and wildlife pro photographers.

Other than wedding photography the others are all mostly amateur pursuits now as photojournalism has lost well over half its employees in recent years. The entire market has shifted to prosumers as by far the dominant force in purchasing.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-20-2013, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Other than wedding photography the others are all mostly amateur pursuits now as photojournalism has lost well over half its employees in recent years. The entire market has shifted to prosumers as by far the dominant force in purchasing.

Thats true but the truth is that professional 35mm cameras have never had a significant pro percentage among their users. I read somewhere that 95%of the Nikon F5 was sold to amateurs. I guess some of the odd and expensive professional DSLR's may have a significant pro percentages but cameras like the D800 have probably numbers similar to the F5 above....

**monochrome** · 09-20-2013, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Thats true but the truth is that professional 35mm cameras have never had a significant pro percentage among their users. I read somewhere that 95%of the Nikon F5 was sold to amateurs. I guess some of the odd and expensive professional DSLR's may have a significant pro percentages but cameras like the D800 have probably numbers similar to the F5 above....

Isn't that the whole point, though? Make a camera that professionals will use, then sell 20x as many to amateurs.

IchabodCrane · 09-20-2013, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

From what I hear they do intend to make a competitive pro level FF dSLR - but they know how long it will take to get there. The idea is to slot between 600 and 800 on price with 90++% of 800 capabilities. From what I hear lenses needs are understood, as well. It is real, but not soon. There will be a difference - the idea is to be an alternative, not just another CaNikonY. Ricoh is smart, patient, quality-oriented and absolutely relentless pursuing its goals. They just plain outlast the other guy.

The intermediate steps will show up on enthusiast/prosumer APSc bodies over time

It's one thing to set goals based on what's out there but it's another to chase a moving target. When Pentax releases a FF digital camera, I doubt there will be a D600 and D800 on the market.

**monochrome** · 09-20-2013, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

It's one thing to set goals based on what's out there but it's another to chase a moving target. When Pentax releases a FF digital camera, I doubt there will be a D600 and D800 on the market.

Well that's the way I heard it. I edited above for clarity.

I also heard FF is real but not soon.

Last edited by monochrome; 09-20-2013 at 06:26 PM.

**Rorschach** · 09-20-2013, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Well that's the way I heard it. I edited above for clarity.

I also heard FF is real but not soon.

Personally I don't mind. I wouldn't have the finances for a full frame right now. Either the new APS-C model or a K5iis when the prices drop because of the new model.

Cynog Ap Brychan · 09-20-2013, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by Allison

it will take lenses too, such as the 60-250 would need to be updated to FF (and it wouldn't hurt to get it to 2.8).

Oh no! Spare me from f2.8 lenses of more than 150mm - they are too big and heavy! The 60-250 mm f4 is about as large a lens as I want to carry, but then, for what I do, I don't need anything faster.

Barry Pearson · 09-20-2013, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Isn't that the whole point, though? Make a camera that professionals will use, then sell 20x as many to amateurs.

An interesting feature of that approach is that amateurs probably don't need the service back-up that professionals need.

Barry Pearson · 09-20-2013, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Oh no! Spare me from f2.8 lenses of more than 150mm - they are too big and heavy! The 60-250 mm f4 is about as large a lens as I want to carry, but then, for what I do, I don't need anything faster.

I agree. Such a lens (60-250mm f/2.8) would weigh between 2 and 3 kilograms, and either take filters over 90mm at the front or have interior filters.

The DA* 60-250mm f/4 weighs just over a kilogram and takes a modest filter of 67mm. It is as much as I want to carry and hand-hold for a full day (for an airshow, say).

Fogel70 · 09-21-2013, 12:13 AM

Tamron 70-200/2.8 have the same weigth as DA* 60-250/4.
But a real FF replacement for DA* 60-250/4 is a 100-400mm lens, and it will be 1.5-2kg if it's f/5.6

Barry Pearson · 09-21-2013, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

Tamron 70-200/2.8 have the same weigth as DA* 60-250/4.
But a real FF replacement for DA* 60-250/4 is a 100-400mm lens, and it will be 1.5-2kg if it's f/5.6

And the (FF) Canon 200-400mm f/4 with Tele-extender is 3.6 kilograms.

Fogel70 · 09-21-2013, 12:33 AM

Yep, FF is not about lightweigth extreme tele glass.

TenZ.NL · 09-21-2013, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I agree. Such a lens (60-250mm f/2.8) would weigh between 2 and 3 kilograms, and either take filters over 90mm at the front or have interior filters.

The DA* 60-250mm f/4 weighs just over a kilogram and takes a modest filter of 67mm. It is as much as I want to carry and hand-hold for a full day (for an airshow, say).

I`ll rather see a 400mm F5.6 WR prime with good wide open performance, something like the canon 400mm F5.6 L. Sort of a little brother to the DA560.
Good performance, not too heavy and reasonably affordable. The canon does €1400,-, I even wouldn`t mind paying more if Pentax would offer such a lens.

09-20-2013, 02:22 PM	#707
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Allison Given that so much needs to be done to really release a pro level FF dslr, it makes me wonder if they aren't just content to stay with prosumers.. From what I hear they do intend to make a competitive pro level FF dSLR - but they know how long it will take to get there. The idea is to slot between [EDIT: should have written what today would be] 600 and 800 on price with 90++% of 800 capabilities. From what I hear lenses needs are understood, as well. It is real, but not soon. There will be a difference - the idea is to be an alternative, not just another CaNikonY. Ricoh is smart, patient, quality-oriented and absolutely relentless pursuing its goals. They just plain outlast the other guy. The intermediate steps will show up on enthusiast/prosumer APSc bodies over time Last edited by monochrome; 09-20-2013 at 06:26 PM.

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09-20-2013, 01:57 PM	#706
Allison Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 667	Originally posted by monochrome If we think about it, aside from Landscape and Studio Pentax hasn't really pursued the major professional image selling markets (wedding/event/sports/wildlife) on a whole host of features ranging from flash sync through AF to shutter speed. I'm not surprised they haven't offered dual card slots either. If they've been honest about offering a near professional level body some day (whether APSC or FF) they'll need to address a lot more than just dual cards. You are right here - they are lacking in making a real bid for wedding, event, photojournalist, sports and wildlife pro photographers. You are spot on about where they are lacking (give me better AF - the IIs is better than the K5, but I am hungry for more!) - I also think they need to address fps for sports and wildlife (and that wouldn't hurt my weddings either) and the trends in the wedding industry for good low light performance with FF. But in my opinion it is going to take more than camera specs to make a real bid for those industries. The new flashes are a start, but it will take lenses too, such as the 60-250 would need to be updated to FF (and it wouldn't hurt to get it to 2.8). Given that so much needs to be done to really release a pro level FF dslr, it makes me wonder if they aren't just content to stay with prosumers....

09-20-2013, 03:39 PM	#708
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Allison they are lacking in making a real bid for wedding, event, photojournalist, sports and wildlife pro photographers. Other than wedding photography the others are all mostly amateur pursuits now as photojournalism has lost well over half its employees in recent years. The entire market has shifted to prosumers as by far the dominant force in purchasing.

09-20-2013, 05:38 PM	#709
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Aristophanes Other than wedding photography the others are all mostly amateur pursuits now as photojournalism has lost well over half its employees in recent years. The entire market has shifted to prosumers as by far the dominant force in purchasing. Thats true but the truth is that professional 35mm cameras have never had a significant pro percentage among their users. I read somewhere that 95%of the Nikon F5 was sold to amateurs. I guess some of the odd and expensive professional DSLR's may have a significant pro percentages but cameras like the D800 have probably numbers similar to the F5 above....

09-20-2013, 06:00 PM	#710
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Thats true but the truth is that professional 35mm cameras have never had a significant pro percentage among their users. I read somewhere that 95%of the Nikon F5 was sold to amateurs. I guess some of the odd and expensive professional DSLR's may have a significant pro percentages but cameras like the D800 have probably numbers similar to the F5 above.... Isn't that the whole point, though? Make a camera that professionals will use, then sell 20x as many to amateurs.

09-20-2013, 06:06 PM	#711
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by monochrome From what I hear they do intend to make a competitive pro level FF dSLR - but they know how long it will take to get there. The idea is to slot between 600 and 800 on price with 90++% of 800 capabilities. From what I hear lenses needs are understood, as well. It is real, but not soon. There will be a difference - the idea is to be an alternative, not just another CaNikonY. Ricoh is smart, patient, quality-oriented and absolutely relentless pursuing its goals. They just plain outlast the other guy. The intermediate steps will show up on enthusiast/prosumer APSc bodies over time It's one thing to set goals based on what's out there but it's another to chase a moving target. When Pentax releases a FF digital camera, I doubt there will be a D600 and D800 on the market.

09-20-2013, 06:19 PM	#712
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by IchabodCrane It's one thing to set goals based on what's out there but it's another to chase a moving target. When Pentax releases a FF digital camera, I doubt there will be a D600 and D800 on the market. Well that's the way I heard it. I edited above for clarity. I also heard FF is real but not soon. Last edited by monochrome; 09-20-2013 at 06:26 PM.

09-20-2013, 08:21 PM	#713
Rorschach Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kuusamo, Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 652	Originally posted by monochrome Well that's the way I heard it. I edited above for clarity. I also heard FF is real but not soon. Personally I don't mind. I wouldn't have the finances for a full frame right now. Either the new APS-C model or a K5iis when the prices drop because of the new model.

09-20-2013, 09:50 PM	#714
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by Allison it will take lenses too, such as the 60-250 would need to be updated to FF (and it wouldn't hurt to get it to 2.8). Oh no! Spare me from f2.8 lenses of more than 150mm - they are too big and heavy! The 60-250 mm f4 is about as large a lens as I want to carry, but then, for what I do, I don't need anything faster.

09-20-2013, 10:49 PM	#715
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by monochrome Isn't that the whole point, though? Make a camera that professionals will use, then sell 20x as many to amateurs. An interesting feature of that approach is that amateurs probably don't need the service back-up that professionals need.

09-20-2013, 11:03 PM	#716
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Oh no! Spare me from f2.8 lenses of more than 150mm - they are too big and heavy! The 60-250 mm f4 is about as large a lens as I want to carry, but then, for what I do, I don't need anything faster. I agree. Such a lens (60-250mm f/2.8) would weigh between 2 and 3 kilograms, and either take filters over 90mm at the front or have interior filters. The DA* 60-250mm f/4 weighs just over a kilogram and takes a modest filter of 67mm. It is as much as I want to carry and hand-hold for a full day (for an airshow, say).

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09-21-2013, 12:13 AM	#717
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Tamron 70-200/2.8 have the same weigth as DA* 60-250/4. But a real FF replacement for DA* 60-250/4 is a 100-400mm lens, and it will be 1.5-2kg if it's f/5.6

09-21-2013, 12:23 AM	#718
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Fogel70 Tamron 70-200/2.8 have the same weigth as DA* 60-250/4. But a real FF replacement for DA* 60-250/4 is a 100-400mm lens, and it will be 1.5-2kg if it's f/5.6 And the (FF) Canon 200-400mm f/4 with Tele-extender is 3.6 kilograms.

09-21-2013, 12:33 AM	#719
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Yep, FF is not about lightweigth extreme tele glass.

09-21-2013, 01:20 AM	#720
TenZ.NL Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Below sealevel Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,100	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I agree. Such a lens (60-250mm f/2.8) would weigh between 2 and 3 kilograms, and either take filters over 90mm at the front or have interior filters. The DA* 60-250mm f/4 weighs just over a kilogram and takes a modest filter of 67mm. It is as much as I want to carry and hand-hold for a full day (for an airshow, say). I`ll rather see a 400mm F5.6 WR prime with good wide open performance, something like the canon 400mm F5.6 L. Sort of a little brother to the DA560. Good performance, not too heavy and reasonably affordable. The canon does €1400,-, I even wouldn`t mind paying more if Pentax would offer such a lens.