New Camera/s by Christmas

Vylen · 10-09-2013, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

But you do assume that users are stupid enough to quit using APS-C and just use the crop mode of an FF, not noticing the loss of MP's? Users that invest in FF body and lenses for a slight IQ advantage no less. That's funny.

Uh no, I assume people have a mix of APS-C and FF lenses.

philbaum · 10-09-2013, 10:41 AM

First off- Kudos to Ricoh for the Pentax K3 - very impressive specs and i especially like the DR, the double card slot, and the tethering. If there was any doubt as to Ricoh's committment - its gone now.

Originally posted by magkelly

Skinny hipster cameras may be "fun" to carry around but I am not nearly as into my M43 cam as I am into my DSLR, bulk or not. Why? Because I can actually see to take a shot in the bright sun with it. I don't really have $200 to drop on an EVF that IMHO should have come with the darned thing in the first place given it's a PITA to use outside. With only an LCD to use I can't hardly do that with the Oly. The LCD just fades out in situations like that rendering the camera basically useless for most outdoors work. Little cams are cute and I like them because they take all kinds of lenses and are sneaky and that's helpful in certain places, but I still would not trade my DSLR for one permanently. Cool is a state of mind. I don't need other people to decide I am cool. I don't care what other people think of my camera. Or me. I only care about ease of use and about the pics I make with it. If I just wanted to be popular or thought "cool" I'd be content following the herd and shooting with a Nikon or Canon. I'm quite deliberately ignoring all that nonsense by using Pentax. I'd much rather be unhip if it means I have a great quality and less expensive camera in my hands. When it comes to cameras I'm all about pics, not hype, shrug.

I agree with much of what you say. I have had similar experiences with my Nex as you have had with your m43. I still rely on my Pentax DSLR when i need the very best shots and when I have it. The Pentax weatherproofing is invaluable, choices of lenses is much better (your m43 also has this advantage i think), and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination

I like my Nex for macros, for hiking, for casual use around town, like the tilting lcd a lot, like the built-in Nex 6 EVF for sunny days. For road trips, I carry both. My most used lenses on the Nex are Pentax lenses.

When camera companies compete, the consumer wins.

**monochrome** · 10-09-2013, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Unless Pentax suddenly comes out with a plethora of FF lenses when the K-1 is announced (like they did when announcing the M series of cameras in the mid-70's of the previous century; ever seen the picture of the complete M system?).

Of course that was with a completely different market share and with license revenue from the SMC Coating Process pouring in from every lens maker save Leica. Now if the sensor-based AA filter emulation can be licensed, and the HD Coating process can be licensed . . . . .

redrockcoulee · 10-09-2013, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Vylen

He wasn't far off... 1 month isn't bad...

But I would prefer in this instance that he be wrong...

I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.

That said, even if the FF does get announced, I'll be quite content with my Silver K-3

It would be a bad business decision to sit back and not release the K3 for a couple of months in order to release the FF first or at the same time. That would mean loss of sales in the meantime, lost of publicity as the K3 is being taked about more places than this forum and the K3's release would be lost if it was released the same time or shortly afterwards.

I would be upset if I thought I needed a new camera and had to choose between the two models of K5II with Pentax having the K3 made and ready to sell for months. And if people think there is a FF coming soon they can wait. For others they may be in need of a camera right now, especially if for whatever reason they do not have one operating at the present time.

**Rondec** · 10-09-2013, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

First off- Kudos to Ricoh for the Pentax K3 - very impressive specs and i especially like the DR, the double card slot, and the tethering. If there was any doubt as to Ricoh's committment - its gone now.

I agree with much of what you say. I have had similar experiences with my Nex as you have had with your m43. I still rely on my Pentax DSLR when i need the very best shots and when I have it. The Pentax weatherproofing is invaluable, choices of lenses is much better (your m43 also has this advantage i think), and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination

I like my Nex for macros, for hiking, for casual use around town, like the tilting lcd a lot, like the built-in Nex 6 EVF for sunny days. For road trips, I carry both. My most used lenses on the Nex are Pentax lenses.

When camera companies compete, the consumer wins.

I struggle with the NEX when it comes to using larger lenses or, when shooting for longer periods of time. My wife shoots weddings and she has a 16-50 f2.8/50-135 f2.8 on two cameras for a ten hour period of time. Using a classic mirrorless camera is an ergonomic nightmare. Classic SLR size/shape seems to work best. Of course, you could build a mirrorless with a larger size and more ergonomic shape, at which point, the argument would come down to EVF versus OVF (which has been hammered to death on the forum and elsewhere).

Anyway, I feel like easy of portability with a K5 and, say the FA 31, is not that much different from portability with a NEX 7 and a Sony 35mm f1.8 lens...

Poit · 10-09-2013, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Vylen

He wasn't far off... 1 month isn't bad...

But I would prefer in this instance that he be wrong...

I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer.

That said, even if the FF does get announced, I'll be quite content with my Silver K-3

He only had a few months to choose from, given that my original post said we would have something before Christmas! In that context he was well wide of the mark. But no matter, it's all good fun, and I've learned my own lessons about how serious things should be taken here

Having said that, and on reflection, it wouldn't be too surprising if we saw a 645D update in the near future (particularly given the rumours surrounding other manufacturers' entry into medium format territory). What might be 'lower', I don't know. K5iii (to round off the '5' series cameras)?

In terms of FF, I would be VERY surprised if they announced that so close to the K-3. Comments from C R Kennedy and others suggest the FF could be announced more towards Photokina next year, which seems reasonable.

I'll be happy with my silver K-3 until then as well

**monochrome** · 10-09-2013, 12:50 PM

Last spring I heard directly from a senior Pentax employee a FF camera is real but not soon. I suppose today that would be - it is real, and sooner than it was last spring, but not real soon.

cali92rs · 10-09-2013, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

... and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination

I 100% agree with you there, switching from a K-5 to a K-30, I have first hand experience with that. It seemed like u can push and push and push the K-5 files, whereas the K-30, you have to be much more careful with your exposure or live with the noise. They share the same sensor so I am thinking the 14 vs 12-bit files are the difference.

Na Horuk · 10-09-2013, 02:14 PM

The K-3 looks great, but I am wondering, does anyone know if Pentax is planning on making any more announcements or new products this year?

mythguy9 · 10-09-2013, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Vylen

Uh no, I assume people have a mix of APS-C and FF lenses.

I agree with Vylen and hope, if FF is out, there will be an optional crop mode (can be disabled too). Clavius I might buy a FF not because of the slight increase in IQ but because I have couple of legacy lenses that I hope to use at the same focal length (no crop factor). That being said, cropped APS-C plus old lenses does bring out the better centre portion of the lens.

philbaum · 10-09-2013, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by mythguy9

I agree with Vylen and hope, if FF is out, there will be an optional crop mode (can be disabled too). Clavius I might buy a FF not because of the slight increase in IQ but because I have couple of legacy lenses that I hope to use at the same focal length (no crop factor). That being said, cropped APS-C plus old lenses does bring out the better centre portion of the lens.

I agree with you and Vylen - it would be a huge mistake to not have a crop mode. For one thing, it helps the person ease the financial pain of getting into FF by not having to buy all the FF lenses up front. Secondly, if one needs to reduce weight for walk arounds or for hiking, being able to use some crop lenses can save on weight and bag size. Sure, not everyone wants to be able to use crop mode, but why not put the option in there for those that do want that capability.

Paul the Sunman · 10-09-2013, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

I agree with you and Vylen - it would be a huge mistake to not have a crop mode. For one thing, it helps the person ease the financial pain of getting into FF by not having to buy all the FF lenses up front. Secondly, if one needs to reduce weight for walk arounds or for hiking, being able to use some crop lenses can save on weight and bag size. Sure, not everyone wants to be able to use crop mode, but why not put the option in there for those that do want that capability.

Yes, would definitely prefer to have a crop mode on any future Pentax FF. However, if it's not there, we can always crop in post processing, and even set our software to do that automatically on import.

Poit · 10-10-2013, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

The K-3 looks great, but I am wondering, does anyone know if Pentax is planning on making any more announcements or new products this year?

It is my belief that all the new products alluded to in my original post have now been announced. I'm personally not expecting, or hoping for any more new product releases this year.

But someone else may have a new rumour to spread

gazonk · 10-10-2013, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Yes, would definitely prefer to have a crop mode on any future Pentax FF. However, if it's not there, we can always crop in post processing, and even set our software to do that automatically on import.

I sure would prefer that to an automatic crop mode. Several DA lenses (e.g. the 70 and 35 limiteds) are usable with much wider cropping than 1.5x

Paul the Sunman · 10-10-2013, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Poit

It is my belief that all the new products alluded to in my original post have now been announced. I'm personally not expecting, or hoping for any more new product releases this year.

But someone else may have a new rumour to spread

There are still lenses on the Roadmap due this year.

10-09-2013, 10:41 AM	#947
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	First off- Kudos to Ricoh for the Pentax K3 - very impressive specs and i especially like the DR, the double card slot, and the tethering. If there was any doubt as to Ricoh's committment - its gone now. Originally posted by magkelly Skinny hipster cameras may be "fun" to carry around but I am not nearly as into my M43 cam as I am into my DSLR, bulk or not. Why? Because I can actually see to take a shot in the bright sun with it. I don't really have $200 to drop on an EVF that IMHO should have come with the darned thing in the first place given it's a PITA to use outside. With only an LCD to use I can't hardly do that with the Oly. The LCD just fades out in situations like that rendering the camera basically useless for most outdoors work. Little cams are cute and I like them because they take all kinds of lenses and are sneaky and that's helpful in certain places, but I still would not trade my DSLR for one permanently. Cool is a state of mind. I don't need other people to decide I am cool. I don't care what other people think of my camera. Or me. I only care about ease of use and about the pics I make with it. If I just wanted to be popular or thought "cool" I'd be content following the herd and shooting with a Nikon or Canon. I'm quite deliberately ignoring all that nonsense by using Pentax. I'd much rather be unhip if it means I have a great quality and less expensive camera in my hands. When it comes to cameras I'm all about pics, not hype, shrug. I agree with much of what you say. I have had similar experiences with my Nex as you have had with your m43. I still rely on my Pentax DSLR when i need the very best shots and when I have it. The Pentax weatherproofing is invaluable, choices of lenses is much better (your m43 also has this advantage i think), and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination I like my Nex for macros, for hiking, for casual use around town, like the tilting lcd a lot, like the built-in Nex 6 EVF for sunny days. For road trips, I carry both. My most used lenses on the Nex are Pentax lenses. When camera companies compete, the consumer wins. Last edited by philbaum; 10-09-2013 at 10:51 AM.

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10-09-2013, 04:45 AM	#946
Vylen Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,262	Originally posted by Clavius But you do assume that users are stupid enough to quit using APS-C and just use the crop mode of an FF, not noticing the loss of MP's? Users that invest in FF body and lenses for a slight IQ advantage no less. That's funny. Uh no, I assume people have a mix of APS-C and FF lenses.

10-09-2013, 11:11 AM	#948
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Asahiflex Unless Pentax suddenly comes out with a plethora of FF lenses when the K-1 is announced (like they did when announcing the M series of cameras in the mid-70's of the previous century; ever seen the picture of the complete M system?). Of course that was with a completely different market share and with license revenue from the SMC Coating Process pouring in from every lens maker save Leica. Now if the sensor-based AA filter emulation can be licensed, and the HD Coating process can be licensed . . . . .

10-09-2013, 11:22 AM	#949
redrockcoulee Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 2,306	Originally posted by Vylen He wasn't far off... 1 month isn't bad... But I would prefer in this instance that he be wrong... I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer. That said, even if the FF does get announced, I'll be quite content with my Silver K-3 It would be a bad business decision to sit back and not release the K3 for a couple of months in order to release the FF first or at the same time. That would mean loss of sales in the meantime, lost of publicity as the K3 is being taked about more places than this forum and the K3's release would be lost if it was released the same time or shortly afterwards. I would be upset if I thought I needed a new camera and had to choose between the two models of K5II with Pentax having the K3 made and ready to sell for months. And if people think there is a FF coming soon they can wait. For others they may be in need of a camera right now, especially if for whatever reason they do not have one operating at the present time.

10-09-2013, 11:38 AM	#950
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	Originally posted by philbaum First off- Kudos to Ricoh for the Pentax K3 - very impressive specs and i especially like the DR, the double card slot, and the tethering. If there was any doubt as to Ricoh's committment - its gone now. I agree with much of what you say. I have had similar experiences with my Nex as you have had with your m43. I still rely on my Pentax DSLR when i need the very best shots and when I have it. The Pentax weatherproofing is invaluable, choices of lenses is much better (your m43 also has this advantage i think), and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination I like my Nex for macros, for hiking, for casual use around town, like the tilting lcd a lot, like the built-in Nex 6 EVF for sunny days. For road trips, I carry both. My most used lenses on the Nex are Pentax lenses. When camera companies compete, the consumer wins. I struggle with the NEX when it comes to using larger lenses or, when shooting for longer periods of time. My wife shoots weddings and she has a 16-50 f2.8/50-135 f2.8 on two cameras for a ten hour period of time. Using a classic mirrorless camera is an ergonomic nightmare. Classic SLR size/shape seems to work best. Of course, you could build a mirrorless with a larger size and more ergonomic shape, at which point, the argument would come down to EVF versus OVF (which has been hammered to death on the forum and elsewhere). Anyway, I feel like easy of portability with a K5 and, say the FA 31, is not that much different from portability with a NEX 7 and a Sony 35mm f1.8 lens...

10-09-2013, 12:32 PM	#951
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423 Original Poster	Originally posted by Vylen He wasn't far off... 1 month isn't bad... But I would prefer in this instance that he be wrong... I find it somewhat underhanded to announce the K-3, then a couple months later, produce something that trumps the flagship... even if it is the mythical FF. It doesn't give people opportunity to make a choice as a consumer. That said, even if the FF does get announced, I'll be quite content with my Silver K-3 He only had a few months to choose from, given that my original post said we would have something before Christmas! In that context he was well wide of the mark. But no matter, it's all good fun, and I've learned my own lessons about how serious things should be taken here Having said that, and on reflection, it wouldn't be too surprising if we saw a 645D update in the near future (particularly given the rumours surrounding other manufacturers' entry into medium format territory). What might be 'lower', I don't know. K5iii (to round off the '5' series cameras)? In terms of FF, I would be VERY surprised if they announced that so close to the K-3. Comments from C R Kennedy and others suggest the FF could be announced more towards Photokina next year, which seems reasonable. I'll be happy with my silver K-3 until then as well

10-09-2013, 12:50 PM	#952
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Last spring I heard directly from a senior Pentax employee a FF camera is real but not soon. I suppose today that would be - it is real, and sooner than it was last spring, but not real soon.

10-09-2013, 01:17 PM	#953
cali92rs Veteran Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 3,354	Originally posted by philbaum ... and the 14bit files seem to be better for processing - or is it my imagination I 100% agree with you there, switching from a K-5 to a K-30, I have first hand experience with that. It seemed like u can push and push and push the K-5 files, whereas the K-30, you have to be much more careful with your exposure or live with the noise. They share the same sensor so I am thinking the 14 vs 12-bit files are the difference.

10-09-2013, 02:14 PM	#954
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	The K-3 looks great, but I am wondering, does anyone know if Pentax is planning on making any more announcements or new products this year?

10-09-2013, 06:39 PM	#955
mythguy9 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 276	Originally posted by Vylen Uh no, I assume people have a mix of APS-C and FF lenses. I agree with Vylen and hope, if FF is out, there will be an optional crop mode (can be disabled too). Clavius I might buy a FF not because of the slight increase in IQ but because I have couple of legacy lenses that I hope to use at the same focal length (no crop factor). That being said, cropped APS-C plus old lenses does bring out the better centre portion of the lens.

10-09-2013, 08:20 PM	#956
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by mythguy9 I agree with Vylen and hope, if FF is out, there will be an optional crop mode (can be disabled too). Clavius I might buy a FF not because of the slight increase in IQ but because I have couple of legacy lenses that I hope to use at the same focal length (no crop factor). That being said, cropped APS-C plus old lenses does bring out the better centre portion of the lens. I agree with you and Vylen - it would be a huge mistake to not have a crop mode. For one thing, it helps the person ease the financial pain of getting into FF by not having to buy all the FF lenses up front. Secondly, if one needs to reduce weight for walk arounds or for hiking, being able to use some crop lenses can save on weight and bag size. Sure, not everyone wants to be able to use crop mode, but why not put the option in there for those that do want that capability.

10-09-2013, 08:26 PM	#957
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by philbaum I agree with you and Vylen - it would be a huge mistake to not have a crop mode. For one thing, it helps the person ease the financial pain of getting into FF by not having to buy all the FF lenses up front. Secondly, if one needs to reduce weight for walk arounds or for hiking, being able to use some crop lenses can save on weight and bag size. Sure, not everyone wants to be able to use crop mode, but why not put the option in there for those that do want that capability. Yes, would definitely prefer to have a crop mode on any future Pentax FF. However, if it's not there, we can always crop in post processing, and even set our software to do that automatically on import.

10-10-2013, 12:02 AM	#958
Poit Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 423 Original Poster	Originally posted by Na Horuk The K-3 looks great, but I am wondering, does anyone know if Pentax is planning on making any more announcements or new products this year? It is my belief that all the new products alluded to in my original post have now been announced. I'm personally not expecting, or hoping for any more new product releases this year. But someone else may have a new rumour to spread

10-10-2013, 12:11 AM	#959
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Yes, would definitely prefer to have a crop mode on any future Pentax FF. However, if it's not there, we can always crop in post processing, and even set our software to do that automatically on import. I sure would prefer that to an automatic crop mode. Several DA lenses (e.g. the 70 and 35 limiteds) are usable with much wider cropping than 1.5x

10-10-2013, 12:15 AM	#960
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,843	Originally posted by Poit It is my belief that all the new products alluded to in my original post have now been announced. I'm personally not expecting, or hoping for any more new product releases this year. But someone else may have a new rumour to spread There are still lenses on the Roadmap due this year.