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08-03-2013, 06:36 AM - 2 Likes   #91
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Will it really be so awful if Pentax becomes a sub-brand of Ricoh, like Lumix is to Panasonic, Aquos is to Sharp, Playstation is to Sony, Mac is to Apple and indeed Pentax was to Asahi?

Whatever they call it, Ricoh/Pentax will stand or fall on the quality of the products they make, not the name.

08-03-2013, 06:36 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
None of those were consumer-oriented businesses where brand names count for more.
That distinction just might be the key. In B2B Pentax remains owned by Hoya - all the medical devices. Unlike Sony and KonicaMinolta, Ricoh owns the consumer brand name Pentax [EDIT: for cameras and sport optics] and Seiko owns the name for eyeglasses. FWIW, the WG-2 is marketed for dental macro applications through the B2B channel quite successfully

Again, while Pentax may have brand currency to us, may mean something emotional to us, what the hell does it mean to my daughter? Absolutely nothing, other than its that old stuff my Dad collects, and those cameras he can put his old lenses on.

Granted, this is Devil's Advocacy, but wasn't Gestetner that machine that used the really smelly fluid to transfer purple ink onto slippery paper? I remember getting some demerits once in school and having to hand-crank 1100 copies of something as part of my Detention. Rex Rotary, InfoTec, InfoPrint - what did they do again? I can't recall. Heidelberg I know made huge offset printing presses as long as a football field. Railcar-sized rolls of paper went on one end and sewn entablatures came out the other. IKON Office systems, IIRC, was a financial failure in the US before Ricoh stepped in - so bad, in fact, that Ricoh had to restructure.

For the life of me I can't understand what this has to do with cameras. In every single public and private, personal statement I've heard Ricoh has said they are committed to both brand names. Oh, and don't forget, the new corporate brand image was pasted onto the Ricoh Cameras website too.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-08-2013 at 11:05 AM.
08-03-2013, 06:51 AM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Again, while Pentax may have brand currency to us, may mean something emotional to us, what the hell does it mean to my daughter? Absolutely nothing, other than its that old stuff my Dad collects, and those cameras he can put his old lenses on.
That's a good point. And when visiting suppliers and distributors, I bet a Ricoh business card gets them taken much more seriously than Pentax. Didn't I hear that Pentax had totally screwed up their relationships with retailers in the US?

Also from the consumer point of view, Pentax may not have the positive associations we on this forum have. What if Ricoh did some market research and found that the main associations with Pentax were: "slow and noisy AF", "multi-coloured cameras", "the brand you buy if you can't afford Canon or Nikon" and "who?" They may have felt that the name of a stronger company like Ricoh will give customers more confidence in them.
08-03-2013, 07:01 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That distinction just might be the key. In B2B Pentax remains owned by Hoya - all the medical devices.
Polyps Hide. Retroview Seeks.

PENTAX Medical

08-03-2013, 07:29 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
wasn't Gestetner that machine that used the really smelly fluid
Aaaah, those were the days.

Now all we've got left to sniff is glue!
08-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Didn't I hear that Pentax had totally screwed up their relationships with retailers in the US?
From what I hear the Hoya / Bunnel legacy Distributor arrangement in the US has proven much harder to overcome than Malcolm imagined it would when trying to restart Dealer Sales Agreements. The Dealer attitude seems to be, "Show me the money."
08-03-2013, 02:39 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Both links go to www.Pentax.com. In the USA, at least, the image branding is still "Pentax. A Ricoh Company" Of course that could be another example of Pentax USA being late updating thier website - but then it could be intentional, that PENTAX as a brand name is more important in the USA than in Japan, where Ricoh is the more powerful name..
Look again, that's changed to the second millenarian dated, tasteless and meaningless slogan of RICOH ; as well.
Same with french sites.
PENTAX is not an internet brand any more.

I like to read some of our doctor's reaction to what is easily thrown away as fanboyism and uncontained emotion... and preferably refering to immaginary opinion pools showing this or that towards PENTAX name's public perception...

But i do speak business.
And there are few things business doesn't cope with : confusion, doubt, unloyalty, and last of them, stagnation. Can any of our contradictors argue with any FACT proving RICOH's approach to Pentax is not the one we percieve ?

I wish i were wrong.
Prove it.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 08-03-2013 at 02:48 PM.
08-03-2013, 02:52 PM   #98
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Usually, one would prove he is right - instead of making claims and let others to disprove them

08-03-2013, 03:10 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Usually, one would prove he is right - instead of making claims and let others to disprove them
What Zygonix is telling you, is that we are currently seeing Pentax being dismantled with our own eyes. It's not just a claim we want to have disproven. Disprove what we are actually seeing: First they were bought out, then the usual waiting period. (No major changes or laying off of personnel for a certain period.) Then the name disappears from the internet. And the next step is obvious: the "new" Ricoh K3. Or there may be some steps in between.

Ever did the experiment in school where you had to put a frog in cold water and really very slowly raise the temperature of the water until it boils?
08-03-2013, 03:42 PM   #100
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Ricoh's got a plan all right...

Back in college I took a photography course. As a prerequisite I had to buy an SLR. As a broke college student cheap was the only option. I ended up buying a K-mount Ricoh with zoom lens for $200. I forget the model #. This was back in '94. The cam was fully manual.

I was the LAUGHING-STOCK of the class. If I got a dollar each time I heard "rico suave" it wouldn't have been so bad. Everyone else had Nikon, Canon or Minolta. A few others had Pentax or Contax. Me? The rico suave of cams. If only it were true.

The cam broke 10 years later while advancing film. It now rests peacefully in a landfill somewhere.
08-03-2013, 04:41 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
That's a good point. And when visiting suppliers and distributors, I bet a Ricoh business card gets them taken much more seriously than Pentax. Didn't I hear that Pentax had totally screwed up their relationships with retailers in the US?

Also from the consumer point of view, Pentax may not have the positive associations we on this forum have. What if Ricoh did some market research and found that the main associations with Pentax were: "slow and noisy AF", "multi-coloured cameras", "the brand you buy if you can't afford Canon or Nikon" and "who?" They may have felt that the name of a stronger company like Ricoh will give customers more confidence in them.
Interesting. Very interesting thoughts. Maybe Ricoh would be a better name altogether on all products, and why not start selling all the cameras from the Ricoh company via the Ricoh shops that are in place? At least in cities where there is no Pentax dealers at all. I don't care about the name on the cameras and lenses. I care about good imaging quality, and weather sealed products at competitive prices. Quality, price, and weather sealing is important for me, not the name.
08-03-2013, 04:57 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Look again, that's changed to the second millenarian dated, tasteless and meaningless slogan of RICOH ; as well.
Huh. Really? Digital Cameras by PENTAX - Waterproof Digital Camera - Digital SLR

I note they haven't changed the URL

PENTAX
A Ricoh Company


But I've also said I really don't know anything and that even bonehead jerks don't throw away good brands, so if they throw it away maybe it isn't as good a brand as we think.

Then again, they've told us over and over again they intend to retain both brands, so the real issue here is the silence, into which we inject our fears. It seems like our senses are inventing sights and sound while trapped in the depths of a cave.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-03-2013 at 07:28 PM.
08-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Polyps Hide. Retroview Seeks.

PENTAX Medical
I once had one of those lenses . . . .

Come to think of it, that was about 5 years ago.
08-03-2013, 07:11 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I once had one of those lenses . . . .
Look, I don't care who you are. If you make one of those do a 180 degree turn inside me, I'm going to punch you in the neck.
08-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #105
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It will be a very sad day when the Pentax brand is reduced to medical hardware...
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