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08-05-2013, 12:40 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Repeatedly? This is the first time I hear such thing — that APS-C line (should?) consist of 3 DSLRs.
Can you please elaborate with more info.

I think that could be a problem; K500 and K50 are not the cameras that drive the sales of better lenses, especially DA* and DA Ltds. To me, K50 and K500 are aimed at folks buying kit lenses.

To sell more quality lenses, Pentax needs APS-C cameras that are clearly advanced enthusiast and pro level. When they have such cameras, then sales of lenses will go up too, and K50 users will suddenly see an extra appeal in better lenses.

Or, two more APS-C DSLRs are needed. In total, four. Just one body above K50 makes lineup still very weak, wanting and is same as what we have today.
The issue right now is mainly that there isn't enough separation between a K50 and a K5II. They sport the same sensor, viewfinder, and are pretty similar in specs -- the K50 is actually better in some respects. Having a low end cheap camera in the line up is good. There are a certain number of people who buy a Canon XSI or a K500, who eventually decide they want to "get into photography more" and will move up. The more K Mount users the better in my opinion -- even if they are just buying used K2000s on the marketplace.

08-05-2013, 12:56 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The issue right now is mainly that there isn't enough separation between a K50 and a K5II. They sport the same sensor, viewfinder, and are pretty similar in specs -- the K50 is actually better in some respects. Having a low end cheap camera in the line up is good. There are a certain number of people who buy a Canon XSI or a K500, who eventually decide they want to "get into photography more" and will move up. The more K Mount users the better in my opinion -- even if they are just buying used K2000s on the marketplace.
Well yes. But in essence: Pentax lineup desperately, urgently, earnestly, seriously, critically! needs those damned advanced enthusiast and pro bodies. Only with such bodies good lenses can be sold in larger quantities, we can get more quality lenses in general, and make K mount a desirable option for investment and creative exploration.

Without such bodies we get situation like today, when PRIC USA increases lens prices, people start screaming because we have no bodies above old and dated K5 that would makes people invest in more expensive lenses and Pentax lineup in general! Honestly, why would we need an FF at all if we don't have an APS-C line that is up to scratch?!?

Last edited by Uluru; 08-05-2013 at 05:53 AM.
08-05-2013, 03:34 AM   #48
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Oh well, folks, we've been here already - again and again and again. A statement from a Pentax official given in Japanese which is so mangled by the Google Borkalator that it's impossible to take anything from the English version other than the most generalized sentiments. Leave it out.

I'm going by the press release of 02 July which was in plain English. It announced the company name changes but it also made statements about Ricoh's future strategy. That made it clear that the intention is to keep the Pentax brand in the market, but with caveats. That is what one would expect - no company can write a blank cheque. The name of the game is change and looking over the past few years with the stops and starts and general alarums, why anyone would complain that things are not staying the same beats me.

What we've seen so far is that Ricoh are starting from the ground up. They've probably had a heck of a job sorting out integration and so forth behind the scenes. They are probably still having a heck of a job re-establishing sales contracts and retail relations after a pretty disastrous decade for Pentax. They've begun to make over the product line, starting at the lower to mid end. It's a perfectly fair expectation that over the next year they will continue the process and move upwards towards the high end. Not all of that will be Pentax, nor should it be. Some will be a rejuvenated Ricoh cameras too. It's simply to early to know how all of this will pan out, but the idea that everything is going to continue "as was", with business as usual which all too often meant "usually no business", is a fantasy.
08-05-2013, 06:44 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by DavidOBryan Quote
I know this is off-topic but I would love to hear more about this.
In a nutshell, I pointed the camera through the store window and at the cars in the parking lot. The auto exposure was good with good exposure range, and I could zoom in and read a license plate that was 30 yards away.

08-05-2013, 06:48 AM   #50
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My fav quote from page 6 "and nest, big pants is a concept". Any idea what that means?
08-05-2013, 07:03 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Oh well, folks, we've been here already - again and again and again. A statement from a Pentax official given in Japanese which is so mangled by the Google Borkalator that it's impossible to take anything from the English version other than the most generalized sentiments. Leave it out.
Actually, it's worse than that. It's a Chinese interview, so presumably the comments had been through a human translation even before that.

And I agree with everything you said in that post. There was a lot that needed to be done to strengthen Pentax and I think Ricoh is being quite methodical, doing it step by step.
08-05-2013, 07:12 AM   #52
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08-05-2013, 07:19 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Repeatedly? This is the first time I hear such thing — that APS-C line (should?) consist of 3 DSLRs.
Can you please elaborate with more info.

I think that could be a problem; K500 and K50 are not the cameras that drive the sales of better lenses, especially DA* and DA Ltds. To me, K50 and K500 are aimed at folks buying kit lenses.

To sell more quality lenses, Pentax needs APS-C cameras that are clearly advanced enthusiast and pro level. When they have such cameras, then sales of lenses will go up too, and K50 users will suddenly see an extra appeal in better lenses.

Or, two more APS-C DSLRs are needed. In total, four. Just one body above K50 makes lineup still very weak, wanting and is same as what we have today.
QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The issue right now is mainly that there isn't enough separation between a K50 and a K5II. They sport the same sensor, viewfinder, and are pretty similar in specs -- the K50 is actually better in some respects. Having a low end cheap camera in the line up is good. There are a certain number of people who buy a Canon XSI or a K500, who eventually decide they want to "get into photography more" and will move up. The more K Mount users the better in my opinion -- even if they are just buying used K2000s on the marketplace.
@Uluru: Listen to Adam's translations of recent interviews and read recent DPI articles for confirmation. Your time horizon is shorter than Pentax's business plan. I would not be surprised to see a new APSc dSLR higher-spec'ed than K5II before much time passes. I would not be surprised to see something above that but below the best Nikon before much more time (but I can't hold my breath long enough for the latter).

As always, what difference do the bodies make to lens sales if you don't have the lenses to sell?

The idea of low and mid-range bodies - and colors on them - right now for Pentax is to rapidly increase the installed base of K-mounts in the hands of the consuming public. They don't care what is wrapped around the K-mount - just get K-mounts into the public hands.

Once the installed base is large enough third-party makers will start releasing in K-mount again, which will stimulate demand for K-mount cameras, which will support higher-end bodies, which provides cash flow for new Pentax lenses (and high priced 3P lenses) - et cetera, et cetera.

08-05-2013, 07:32 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Actually, it's worse than that. It's a Chinese interview, so presumably the comments had been through a human translation even before that.

And I agree with everything you said in that post. There was a lot that needed to be done to strengthen Pentax and I think Ricoh is being quite methodical, doing it step by step.
Reminds me a little of "English as She is Spoke."
08-05-2013, 09:11 AM - 1 Like   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Whether or not Pentax will be here or not here in the future.....no one in this forum knows. It's all opinion.
He said it plain and simple. Pentax will continue to exist at a "product level." Pentax research and development is no longer an independent entity but has been absorbed by Ricoh camera research and development. Ricoh has made the Ricoh brand paramount. Pentax only exists at the "product level". It's a product line of Ricoh and is not it's own thing anymore. What this means for the future remains to be seen. Perhaps the new cameras will be better than ever. Who knows!? I certainly hope so, but I'm not going to pretend that everything hunky-dory right this minute when it's clearly not.

Comparing the current situation with Hoya owning Pentax is silly. Hoya didn't have a pre-existing consumer camera line did they?

I'm willing to give him time but I don't know if I trust Mr. Kawauchi yet.
08-05-2013, 10:47 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I heard Pentax is going 100% towards mirrorless K-mount cameras based on the K-01. They are getting rid of all of their pentaprisms and flapping mirrors.

...

Let's see how long it take for that crazy idea to come back as a confirmed rumor...
Outside of the ability to focus fast on moving objects, it's one very competent camera. I've used my K-x less since getting the K-01.
I can even live with the screen washing out in bright sun light it.
Bonus: No more front focusing and back focusing lenses...that alone increased my capture rate.

Tempted to get the K-5 II, but waiting for the September release.
08-05-2013, 12:38 PM   #57
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later release

I would expect announcements maybe in September. Release of the product to stores will be a few months later I might guess.


QUOTE=7samurai; "Tempted to get the K-5 II, but waiting for the September release."
08-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeff knight Quote
He said it plain and simple. Pentax will continue to exist at a "product level." Pentax research and development is no longer an independent entity but has been absorbed by Ricoh camera research and development. Ricoh has made the Ricoh brand paramount. Pentax only exists at the "product level". It's a product line of Ricoh and is not it's own thing anymore. What this means for the future remains to be seen. Perhaps the new cameras will be better than ever. Who knows!? I certainly hope so, but I'm not going to pretend that everything hunky-dory right this minute when it's clearly not.

Comparing the current situation with Hoya owning Pentax is silly. Hoya didn't have a pre-existing consumer camera line did they?

I'm willing to give him time but I don't know if I trust Mr. Kawauchi yet.
  1. Ricoh design, engineering and marketing teams have been integrated. Pentax was the much larger entity. Ricoh's camera division R&D did not "absorb" Pentax R&D.
  2. Pentax has always existed only at the product level. Pentax cameras was only one of many optical product divisions of Asahi Optical Company, then Pentax Corporation for a few years, then Hoya Corp. for a couple more. Nothing structural has changed.
  3. Ricoh Corporation has chosen to apply the new Ricoh logo to the Ricoh Cameras web presence exactly the same as it has the Pentax Cameras web presence. The two remain distinct.
08-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
  1. Ricoh design, engineering and marketing teams have been integrated. Pentax was the much larger entity. Ricoh's camera division R&D did not "absorb" Pentax R&D.
  2. Pentax has always existed only at the product level. Pentax cameras was only one of many optical product divisions of Asahi Optical Company, then Pentax Corporation for a few years, then Hoya Corp. for a couple more. Nothing structural has changed.
  3. Ricoh Corporation has chosen to apply the new Ricoh logo to the Ricoh Cameras web presence exactly the same as it has the Pentax Cameras web presence. The two remain distinct.
A hypothetical analogy: The McDonald corporation buys Burger King. They announce that they are now incorporated as BK-McDonalds then suddenly they drop the BK and go back to being just McDonalds, but they still assure everybody not to worry because they will still be selling the Whopper sandwich which will continue to exist at the "product level".

You are a Pentax optical engineer. Your company sells to the hugely profitable Ricoh ltd. so you start to worry about what exactly this will be like! They tell you that you are now part of Pentax-Ricoh. Not to worry. You are a Pentax optical engineer and the Pentax name comes first. Then the company name is changed back to Ricoh. R&D elements of both companies are combined. You can guess who has the final say over what happens next, management and R&D.

Maybe the new McWhopper sandwich will be the best yet, but maybe not.
08-05-2013, 05:35 PM   #60
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Pentax AFIAK still retains all its original design, assembly, and manufacturing assets which is really what matters. Some of those are large, branded buildings. This makes the whole acquisition far more than just a "product" but an integrated system from concept to consumer, and for Pentax, mostly focused on the K-mount.
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