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08-06-2013, 07:10 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Ricoh would NOT want to release a FF DSLR without the appropriate lenses being available at the same time, otherwise, people would buy Sigma and Tamron lenses and they'd miss out on the initial market boost. So, as has been said, they will be working one a system and not just a camera.
Well, recent announcements make much of Pentax as the DSLR side of the business (mainly, though not exclusively). They also make much of "the tremendous strength and awareness of the Ricoh brand" and the need "to deliver a world-class consumer experience." This neatly leaves open the door for Ricoh to launch a mirrorless FF camera in the steps of Sony and Fuji. If it had interchangeable lenses, you'd never need more than a few - wide, normal, portrait, etc. Perhaps it would have just a fixed lens. This would avoid stepping on Pentax toes as it's well clear of DSLR territory, might not tie up too much production capacity and would make a big big splash for Ricoh. After all, they haven't gone to all this trouble and expense to hide their own name under a filing cabinet. It's clear they want Ricoh to be a name to be reckoned with.

I guess such a camera could be rationalized as consumer come luxury rather than "professional" which Ricoh seem to see as Pentax territory though it's pretty hard to know what professional really means these days.

Dream on, I guess.

08-06-2013, 07:28 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I bet $10 million that Pentax has at least 2 working FF protoypes on the go at any given time. I bet they've even mapped out the supply chain and assembly system.

They are likely hung up by:

1) Price point given the very high cost of the sensor and necessary surrounding technology. A $2,000 camera body has a small market.

2) Lenses. The need to ramp up a large # of new designs for FF sensors. This is where the long-term costs of FF are recouped, not the bodies. Doubling their production capacity for 10% more users over APS-C is a hard thing to allocate capital towards.

3) Changing tech. ON-sensor CDAF advancements and other impending technologies create all sorts of issues for putting out a last gen model as your next flagship. Invest wrong and you lose as the competitor is a step ahead.

4) Changing market. While many prosumers prefer larger cameras, market growth is more towards smaller systems either as standalone entities (Nikon 1, Pentax Q) or as second systems. Because the price point is so high the FF market is far likelier to reach saturation before APS-C; the latter is well within the disposable income of the middle class, but all FF is in the luxury zone. A Pentax FF could be chasing diminishing market simply because the large camera is less desirable in a web-sharing world.

5) Used Canikon and Sony models. There is a substantial and growing supply of pro bodies on the used market at low price points. Generally these are very robust and serviceable models tied to larger ecosystems of lenses, flashes, service, etc. This makes a 'value' FF Pentax puts out a hard sell.

All of this becomes easier if FF sensors price wars get going and Sony is not the only game in town.
6) Development of models in conjunction with the FF version. It's highly plausible that they're trying to work on three models at once, namely the successor of the K-5, the 645D and the new FF model. The reason for this being so that they can share the development costs between the models. This also happened with the K-7 and original 645D, both mainly use the same tech (they have for instance the same 77-segment metering system).
08-06-2013, 07:34 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
6) Development of models in conjunction with the FF version. It's highly plausible that they're trying to work on three models at once, namely the successor of the K-5, the 645D and the new FF model. The reason for this being so that they can share the development costs between the models. This also happened with the K-7 and original 645D, both mainly use the same tech (they have for instance the same 77-segment metering system).
Likely. I'd add the Ricoh systems in there as well, especially the GR Mk II which was already alluded to.
08-06-2013, 07:40 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Or they have a issue deciding what colours and what wooden grips to use for camera bodies.
Oh! Oh! I would so go for a wooden bodied camera. Get the right grain and texture and I would swoon!

Maybe that could be their new Eco-Friendly marketing play.

08-06-2013, 11:27 AM   #80
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Last edited by beholder3; 08-11-2013 at 07:40 AM. Reason: [deleted]
08-06-2013, 11:32 AM   #81
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mean while..... www.pentax.jp is now direct to www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp

(No more PENTAX Website)..... hm.... not good!
08-06-2013, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #82
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I'm telling you guys... Pentax is doomed...
It must be true because I know I've read it somewhere on the Internet as a signature... can't remember where though...
08-06-2013, 11:52 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
mean while..... www.pentax.jp is now direct to www.ricoh-imaging.co.jp

(No more PENTAX Website)..... hm.... not good!
4 of the 5 featured products state Pentax on them and the blurb. The other one does not state Ricoh

Chev also does not have their own web site. How long before GM discontinues that name?

To me it looks like a one stop shop to find both Pentax and Ricoh camera gear. A good cross over for the company which separate web sites would not have

08-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by NickLarsson Quote
Is it a japanese way of saying "no FF before 2015" ?
I am afraid yes. Problems can be with the new 14bit engine, shake reduction for FF etc, certainly not with body colors.
08-06-2013, 12:23 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
Chev also does not have their own web site. How long before GM discontinues that name?
I don't know. You may want to ask Pontiac about that!

Seriously though, as long as Pentax is profitable, doesn't compete against itself like GM, and shows potential for growth then Pentax is just fine. Pontiac and Saturn were in a different state of affairs.

Perhaps we'll see two distinct product lines. We'll have the Pentax K and Q lines with their features and we'll have a Ricoh X line with their features (makes me think of my XR-M). Features will trickle back and forth depending on their worthiness and to whom they are targeted toward. Let's think Toyota and Lexus. Each is so distinct yet owned by one parent company. We don't see a Toyota logo on a Lexus or vice-versa (under the hood doesn't count - think front grille only). Yet, parts are interchangeable in many cases. Could a Ricoh DSLR share a K-mount, focusing screen, and tripod mount with a Pentax DSLR? Sure! Maybe one will have a plastic body and the other will have a carbon fiber body. Who knows?

I'm OK with a Toyota right now. Plenty of places for me to go on it. Maybe if the time and price is right then I'll get a Ricoh DSLR.

QuoteOriginally posted by bvg Quote
I am afraid yes. Problems can be with the new 14bit engine, shake reduction for FF etc, certainly not with body colors.
What if colors are a problem and they are exploring just what they can get away with? Remember all the problems Apple was having with a white bodied phone? Something about reflections and flash glare. I honestly can't remember all the details.
08-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
4 of the 5 featured products state Pentax on them and the blurb. The other one does not state Ricoh

Chev also does not have their own web site. How long before GM discontinues that name?

To me it looks like a one stop shop to find both Pentax and Ricoh camera gear. A good cross over for the company which separate web sites would not have
Well that would be because you have to type out the whole name...

2013 Chevy Cars, Trucks, SUVs, Crossovers and Vans | Chevrolet

Even Oldsmobile and Pontiac still have their own pages...even if it just for legacy support.
08-06-2013, 12:39 PM   #87
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It's highly unlikely they'll make a small volume camera like a FF in colors (special edition excluded).
08-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #88
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Haha Pentax FF in 2015

Seriously i cant stop laughing.....
Its like 2010 all over again "on Photokina 2012 they will show a FF"

Most likely it will be some kind of "low end " FF, like the D600 but with a 5d Mark II AF-System.....in 2015......

I havn't seen anything of "value" being added to the Pentax Portfolio.
Mostly Cheapo-Lenses and Bodies ( which are nice, but some kind of dispensable) and the "ooh so funny" 560mm/f5,6 with a bold price tag.....
08-06-2013, 12:54 PM   #89
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Laugh to your heart's content; but it's the first time (after the cancelled "MZ-D" project) when Pentax said they're working on a FF. You have no clue what they have, what they will have but this can't stop you from bashing it...
08-06-2013, 12:56 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It's highly unlikely they'll make a small volume camera like a FF in colors (special edition excluded).
All Pentax cameras are small volume. Beautiful rosy option could be a groundbreaker for FF market...
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